Do You Support Nation Wide Constitutional Carry? - Page 8

View Poll Results: Do you support nation wide permitless carry?

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  • Yes

    162 79.41%
  • No

    42 20.59%
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Thread: Do You Support Nation Wide Constitutional Carry?

  1. #71
    handgonnetoter Guest
    Man, why are you guys going back and forth at each other over this. Seriously, this "National" law or permit allowing carry anywhere will probably never happen.

  2.   
  3. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    Three states (Alaska, Arizon and Vermont) do not require a concealed hand gun permit to carry a concealed firearm w/ in their state.

    Do you think this should be the norm?

    Why or why not?
    I do support the federal government accepting our 2nd amendment rights and acknowledging for what they are.
    However I am not for a federal level 'licensing' system for concealed carry simply because the states are probably the only thing that keeps the feds in check where guns are concerned.

    If they have a federal CCW license then the feds call the shots. Im not comfortable with having a license that can be drastically changed or revoked at the whim the feds given their history the last couple decades.
    Who's to say that there wont be some crazy stipulations like if an 'assault' weapon ban happens again that the CCW license holder will have to turn in any said 'assault' weapons or lose that license.

    Im not a conspiracy theory nut...I just think many federal level politicians have their heads up their rear ends.

    I think the states should get together and work on a nationally accepted license policy that they all agree on. Keep the feds out of it.
    That way if ONE state changes its mind, it has no effect on the other 49.

  4. #73
    It is sort of ridiculous when you think about it.
    Here in Ohio the law doesnt prohibit open carry.
    So lawfully I can carry open without a single second of training.
    But if I want to carry concealed I have to take a course and get a license ?

    Im not really comprehending the reasoning there. Both should be the same...ie if we're going to insist on training or a license, it should apply to both or neither.
    Neither would be fine with me.
    I mean, we cant actually believe that the rest of us are dumber than folks in Vermont.
    Are we ?

  5. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    I guess public safety is a high priority for me on the road to excercising 2A rights. Yours (and others) seems to be the speed and ease with which you can do it.
    It's not that public safety isn't a high piority; my issue is thae fact that places like Vermont (no permit required) and states that have little or no "training" requirement before they'll issue you a permit tell me that permits really aren't what enhances public safety anymore than closing the "gunshow loophole" is going to stop fifty caliber machine guns from showing up at drug bust in Mexico.

    If permits make people safer why doesn't Vermont have a significantly higher instance of firearm related deaths?
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  6. #75
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    Just to clarifiy I am not talking about a "National Permit" or a "National Law" I'm talking about every state going permitless
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  7. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    If permits make people safer why doesn't Vermont have a significantly higher instance of firearm related deaths?
    That detail does seem to gum up the works as far as claiming that permits and training make people 'safer'.
    Im not against training at all. Just not so sure that its requirement has made us any safer at all.

  8. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    It's not that public safety isn't a high piority; my issue is thae fact that places like Vermont (no permit required) and states that have little or no "training" requirement before they'll issue you a permit tell me that permits really aren't what enhances public safety anymore than closing the "gunshow loophole" is going to stop fifty caliber machine guns from showing up at drug bust in Mexico.

    If permits make people safer why doesn't Vermont have a significantly higher instance of firearm related deaths?
    Here are the firearm death rates for each state according to the most recent data from the Center for Disease Control. I have highlighted the 3 states you spoke of as requiring no permit for carrying.

    # 1 District of Columbia: 31.2
    # 2 Alaska: 20
    # 3 Louisiana: 19.5
    # 4 Wyoming: 18.8
    # 5 Arizona: 18
    # 6 Nevada: 17.3
    # 6 Mississippi: 17.3
    # 8 New Mexico: 16.6
    # 9 Arkansas: 16.3
    # 10 Alabama: 16.2
    # 11 Tennessee: 15.4
    # 12 West Virginia: 14.7
    # 13 Montana: 14.5
    # 14 South Carolina: 13.8
    # 15 North Carolina: 13.6
    # 16 Georgia: 13.4
    # 17 Kentucky: 13.1
    # 17 Oklahoma: 13.1
    # 19 Missouri: 12.3
    # 19 Idaho: 12.3
    # 21 Indiana: 11.7
    # 22 Colorado: 11.5
    # 22 Maryland: 11.5
    # 24 Florida: 11.1
    # 24 Virginia: 11.1
    # 26 Texas: 11
    # 27 Michigan: 10.9
    # 28 Oregon: 10.5
    # 29 Pennsylvania: 9.9
    # 30 California: 9.8
    # 31 Illinois: 9.7
    # 31 Kansas: 9.7
    # 31 Utah: 9.7
    # 34 Vermont: 9.6
    # 35 Ohio: 9.3
    # 35 Washington: 9.3
    # 37 Delaware: 9.1
    # 37 North Dakota: 9.1
    # 39 Wisconsin: 8.1
    # 39 Nebraska: 8.1
    # 41 South Dakota: 7.9
    # 42 Iowa: 6.7
    # 43 Maine: 6.5
    # 44 Minnesota: 6
    # 45 New Hampshire: 5.8
    # 46 Rhode Island: 5.1
    # 46 New York: 5.1
    # 48 New Jersey: 4.9
    # 49 Connecticut: 4.3
    # 50 Massachusetts: 3.1
    # 51 Hawaii: 2.8
    Weighted average: 11.5

    You're starting to become my best ally in this argument. Earlier you pointed out that gun deaths are comparatively low and when I went to check on the stats (you were correct) I learned that the NRA and others attributed this to increased training and safety education w/ respect to firearms - exactly what I've been preaching.

    Now you point out that Vermont (a permit-free state) has a low firearm death rate and when I check on those stats I find that the other 2 permit-free states are among the worst in terms of firearm deaths. The very stats that you have presented seem to point in favor of my view and not yours.

    This aspect of your argument isn't holding much water.
    (Insert random tough-guy quote here)
    "See my gun?? Aren't you impressed?" - Anonymous sheepdog
    The hardware is the same, but the software is vastly different.

  9. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruger357SP101 View Post
    That detail does seem to gum up the works as far as claiming that permits and training make people 'safer'.
    Im not against training at all. Just not so sure that its requirement has made us any safer at all.
    You mean all the training we give the Police who are suppose to protect us is what keeps us safe from gun. I say Hell no. If you look at all the shooting done by police departments and the bystanders that were hit compared to citizens with CCW permits that were involved in shootings and the number of bystanders that got hit.

    The CCW citizens have a lower number of missed shots and bystanders hit by the misplaced bullets.

    These are just facts that for some reason never get told by the media.

    So you want citizens to have training before being allowed to carry a gun but don't care that the police officers are trained and are the people you should be worried about being shot by. The training they receive is not at the level that most CCW citizens pay for.

    So wanting people to receive training before carrying a gun is a dumb idea if you are willing to leave off the quality of the training the person has to receive. As pointed out above police receive training and going by the facts the training they got was not good or to the level of the CCW citizens had.

  10. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    Here are the firearm death rates for each state according to the most recent data from the Center for Disease Control. I have highlighted the 3 states you spoke of as requiring no permit for carrying.

    # 1 District of Columbia: 31.2
    # 2 Alaska: 20
    # 3 Louisiana: 19.5
    # 4 Wyoming: 18.8
    # 5 Arizona: 18
    # 6 Nevada: 17.3
    # 6 Mississippi: 17.3
    # 8 New Mexico: 16.6
    # 9 Arkansas: 16.3
    # 10 Alabama: 16.2
    # 11 Tennessee: 15.4
    # 12 West Virginia: 14.7
    # 13 Montana: 14.5
    # 14 South Carolina: 13.8
    # 15 North Carolina: 13.6
    # 16 Georgia: 13.4
    # 17 Kentucky: 13.1
    # 17 Oklahoma: 13.1
    # 19 Missouri: 12.3
    # 19 Idaho: 12.3
    # 21 Indiana: 11.7
    # 22 Colorado: 11.5
    # 22 Maryland: 11.5
    # 24 Florida: 11.1
    # 24 Virginia: 11.1
    # 26 Texas: 11
    # 27 Michigan: 10.9
    # 28 Oregon: 10.5
    # 29 Pennsylvania: 9.9
    # 30 California: 9.8
    # 31 Illinois: 9.7
    # 31 Kansas: 9.7
    # 31 Utah: 9.7
    # 34 Vermont: 9.6
    # 35 Ohio: 9.3
    # 35 Washington: 9.3
    # 37 Delaware: 9.1
    # 37 North Dakota: 9.1
    # 39 Wisconsin: 8.1
    # 39 Nebraska: 8.1
    # 41 South Dakota: 7.9
    # 42 Iowa: 6.7
    # 43 Maine: 6.5
    # 44 Minnesota: 6
    # 45 New Hampshire: 5.8
    # 46 Rhode Island: 5.1
    # 46 New York: 5.1
    # 48 New Jersey: 4.9
    # 49 Connecticut: 4.3
    # 50 Massachusetts: 3.1
    # 51 Hawaii: 2.8
    Weighted average: 11.5

    You're starting to become my best ally in this argument. Earlier you pointed out that gun deaths are comparatively low and when I went to check on the stats (you were correct) I learned that the NRA and others attributed this to increased training and safety education w/ respect to firearms - exactly what I've been preaching.

    Now you point out that Vermont (a permit-free state) has a low firearm death rate and when I check on those stats I find that the other 2 permit-free states are among the worst in terms of firearm deaths. The very stats that you have presented seem to point in favor of my view and not yours.

    This aspect of your argument isn't holding much water.
    Thanks for proving it to me how ignorant you are. Looking at the info you posted does not help you case due to the number one spot being held by a state that had gun control laws that they had to edit after the ruling by the supreme court. So the info you posted helps prove that gun control does nothing to help the safety of the state.

    So out of the top ten states with gun related deaths only 2 of the 3 states show up. And they are not the top 3 on the list. Numbers 2, 5 and 34 if the 3 states where all in the top ten I would say you have a point that the data reflects your opinion. But Vermont ruins you opinion by being so low on the list. That means that there is some other cause for the death rate by guns that is listed above. Going by your opinion the top 3 on the list should be Alaska, Arizona and Vermont. Well only one of these 3 falls in the top 3 states on the list Alaska. The other 2 states have gun control laws that are not doing anything to lower the death rate.

    It is only my opinion backed by the facts that you listed that your opinion is flawed and needs to be revised. If I was ignorant when interpreting the data please point out my ignorance so that I will learn from it

  11. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper View Post
    It is only my opinion backed by the facts that you listed that your opinion is flawed and needs to be revised. If I was ignorant when interpreting the data please point out my ignorance so that I will learn from it
    I will gladly (and easily) point out your ignorance.

    My post was in response to "Treo" who has repeatedly stated that the 3 states that require no permit to carry are no more dangerous (or possibly even safer) in terms of firearm deaths than the states that do require a permit. The stats that I presented proved that "Treo" is absolutely wrong in his assertaions. Refuting his claim was my only goal. I succeeded.

    I'm fully aware that many factors can influence a stat like firearm deaths.
    (Insert random tough-guy quote here)
    "See my gun?? Aren't you impressed?" - Anonymous sheepdog
    The hardware is the same, but the software is vastly different.

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