Alcohol and concealed carry - Page 17
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Thread: Alcohol and concealed carry

  1. Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    I'm so glad NavyLT finds it humorous to drink 2 beers and open carry.
    What I find sad is how far the propaganda of the Brady Campaign has spread into the gun community. To me, the 2nd Amendment is about Americans being able to carry a gun in normal everyday life doing normal everyday things. That means going to school to pick up your kids. That means going to church. That means going into a courthouse or police station to take care of routine matters. That means going into the post office to mail a letter. That means walking down the street without wondering where you cross within 1000' of school property. That means having a loaded gun in a car anywhere you dang well please. That means carrying in a bar. That means having a beer or two at dinner with the family.

    I find it sad that we have let the Brady Campaign and others convince some of us that the mere carrying of a gun, by itself, in certain circumstances is irresponsible. Instead of demonizing the mere act of carrying the gun, maybe we should put the punishment where it belongs - on the irresponsible or negligent USE of the gun.

    I have no problem with a law that would make it illegal to discharge a firearm while over the legal limit for intoxication. I would have no problem at all with a law that would make it illegal to discharge a firearm in a school building or post office or Federal building. With self-defense as an exception, of course. Those are the laws and concerns we should have. Not laws and concerns about where/when a gun is carried.

    My post was meant as a humorous example of the way we have let the anti-gun folks affect us. Up until about the 1950's nobody would have raised an eyebrow at the thought or sight of a gun in a school, post office or bar. Heck, the presence of a citizen carrying a gun in any of those places was more to be expected than to raise concern.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  2.   
  3. #162
    I have a beer holster that I carry on my left hip and my gun hoster on my right. Pretty fast with both, maybe a little faster on the beer.
    Ed
    "The tree of Liberty needs to be watered from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson 3rd president of US (1743 - 1826)

  4. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    What I find sad is how far the propaganda of the Brady Campaign has spread into the gun community.
    Why do you assume that the Brady Bunch have anything to do with an opinion that disagrees with yours? Frankly, I think thats pretty insulting. In essence, what you are implying is that anyone who disagrees with you is a Brady clone.

    To me, the 2nd Amendment is about Americans being able to carry a gun in normal everyday life doing normal everyday things.
    That's exactly right. But the most important words in that sentence are "To me". This is YOUR interpretation. Not everyone's.

    That means going to school to pick up your kids. That means going to church. That means going into a courthouse or police station to take care of routine matters. That means going into the post office to mail a letter. That means walking down the street without wondering where you cross within 1000' of school property. That means having a loaded gun in a car anywhere you dang well please. That means carrying in a bar. That means having a beer or two at dinner with the family.

    I find it sad that we have let the Brady Campaign and others convince some of us that the mere carrying of a gun, by itself, in certain circumstances is irresponsible. Instead of demonizing the mere act of carrying the gun, maybe we should put the punishment where it belongs - on the irresponsible or negligent USE of the gun.

    I have no problem with a law that would make it illegal to discharge a firearm while over the legal limit for intoxication. I would have no problem at all with a law that would make it illegal to discharge a firearm in a school building or post office or Federal building. With self-defense as an exception, of course. Those are the laws and concerns we should have. Not laws and concerns about where/when a gun is carried.
    I can understand your point about making it illegal to discharge a firearm in those locations, but that is legislation "after the fact" that will have no real effect on a BG who wants to shoot someone in a courthouse, or post office, or a school. I don't know if there IS a solution to that problem.

    Would the massacre at Luby's have been less if someone there had been carrying a gun? Almost certainly. Would the Columbine shootings been prevented or lessened if one of the teachers had been armed? I would say yes. But by the same token, how many jurors or prosecution witnesses might be killed because the family of a BG want revenge and carry into a courtroom. When I was a LEO, I saw several people get attacked in the courtroom. I shudder to think how bad it could have been if they had been permitted to carry a weapon into court. We need to find that sensible way. I'm not the guy to decide what that is.

    My post was meant as a humorous example of the way we have let the anti-gun folks affect us. Up until about the 1950's nobody would have raised an eyebrow at the thought or sight of a gun in a school, post office or bar. Heck, the presence of a citizen carrying a gun in any of those places was more to be expected than to raise concern.
    Sadly, we don't live in the 1950's anymore...or the 40's...or the 30's...etc. Take a look at the world we live in today and ask yourself if you really want some of these "people" carrying a gun near your children, or wife. And I don't mean the bad guys.

    I believe in the 2nd Ammendment. I just don't interpret it the same way that you do. I'm not a Brady fan. I think they're very misguided and have a simplistic view of the world. The world would not be some grand utopia if we banned guns. We're not all going to sit around singing "Kumbaya" in a world with out guns. I carry my handgun because I believe in personal defense. And, maybe I'm fooling myself, but I also think I have better judgement than a lot of people I know. I'm not the smartest guy in the world. I don't know squat about nuclear physics. But I'm bright enough to know that I'm not the final arbiter of what is best for our society.

  5. #164
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    SE Florida
    Posts
    1,880
    I find it a bit amusing that so many on these boards who say they carry because of a perceived threat from anything with 2 legs are so quick to give the benefit of the doubt to those under the effects of alcohol. So....everybody is a potential threat unless they're drinking and then they're not a threat. Interesting. A tad self-serving, maybe?? Birds of a feather....

    Anyway, correct me if I'm wrong but are there any states that outright ban drinking and carrying?? I don't believe so but I could be wrong. Florida doesn't ban drinking and carrying, they simply restrict some of the circumstances. Florida's restriction on CCing in bars does not infringe on a person's right to defend themselves. Not in the least. It gives them a choice and a decision - what's more important, "defending yourself and your family" or going into a bar and drinking. Nobody has to go into a bar and drink. It's voluntary.

    Somebody pointed out that there's no "blood flowing in the streets" in states where carrying in bars is OK. I'll use that same logic and say that there's no blood flowing in bar parking lots because of BGs preying on unarmed patrons who're walking out to their vehicles. In 10+ years working for my present employer, I don't recall a single incident of a robbery taking place anywhere in or outside of any of the 5 places he owns. Looks like the BGs aren't exactly lined up to pounce on non-carrying folks as they walk out of the bars. Nor are the thugs coming inside armed and terrorizing the helpless masses who're enjoying a frosty adult beverage. That's not to say something like that has never happened anywhere...it just means it's pretty unlikely. I believe that being in a room filled with buzzed/drunk strangers who're packing is far more dangerous than the off-chance that somebody might jump me in a parking lot.

    Don't like it?? Stay out of bars in Florida and any other state that prohibits such carrying.
    (Insert random tough-guy quote here)
    "See my gun?? Aren't you impressed?" - Anonymous sheepdog
    The hardware is the same, but the software is vastly different.

  6. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    The only thing lacking was that I forgot to wear my CCW Badge...
    You don't wear your CCW Badge when OC'ing, CCW badges are for CC use only. Instead you should wear your mall ninja badge.

  7. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Edsworld View Post
    I have a beer holster that I carry on my left hip and my gun hoster on my right. Pretty fast with both, maybe a little faster on the beer.
    Is it made of leather or kydex?

  8. #167
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    South Carolina/Charleston
    Posts
    2,388
    Hey NavyLT: Check me if I am wrong but you are for an after-the-fact crackdown and arrest on 2A or CC or OC, meaning that after you have either shot someone or are walking down the street waving your firearm, totally wasted or seemingly above 08, someone or society should do something about it---I guess we should also close the barn door after all the cows are gone---it makes no sense. You do not believe that anyone should limit your 2A, CC or OC because you are a responsible person and can be trusted to take care of yourself. I understand where you are going in a perfect world but when you witness or have been intimately involved in a car accident(this could be a firearm) with deaths because someone believes that they can be trusted to take care of themselves and not be intoxicated when they drive (or carry), it tends to change their minds about your argument. If you can really tell me what in the world is so darn difficult to understand or agree to about having society impose a limit on alcohol or any drug ingestion as it relates to dangerous activities that can injure, maim, or even kill someone, I would like to know what it is. If your answer is about personal responsibility and 2A et al, I would suggest that you may understand your responsibilities but, just based on statistics alone, there are many out there who do not. Yes, this is mostly about driving but it easily follows that it is about firearms. I absolutely agree with your premise but this is not a perfect world and, in this instance, asking you to basically not drink if you drive or CC is not asking a whole lot. It sure as heck is a lot less than Brady etal are asking about, which is a red herring, IMO, in this whole argument.

  9. Drinking and carrying can only lead to a bad situation; even if its only one drink. Just think if you had just one drink and had to use your weapon in self defense. The police would be checking you out to see if you was drunk and asking you a lot of questions. Then if you had to go to court, the DA would be trying to say that you did not use good judgement because you was impaired. Regardless of what the law is, I choose not to drink anything while carrying. It just makes better sense. I will still carry in restaurants that serve alcohol, but I will not drink. Not even one drink.

  10. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Previous Post View Post
    ...... I find it a bit amusing Somebody pointed out that there's no "blood flowing in the streets" in states where carrying in bars is OK. I'll use that same logic and say that there's no blood flowing in bar parking lots because of BGs preying on unarmed patrons who're walking out to their vehicles. In 10+ years working for my present employer, I don't recall a single incident of a robbery taking place anywhere in or outside of any of the 5 places he owns. Looks like the BGs aren't exactly lined up to pounce on non-carrying folks as they walk out of the bars. Nor are the thugs coming inside armed and terrorizing the helpless masses who're enjoying a frosty adult beverage. That's not to say something like that has never happened anywhere...it just means it's pretty unlikely. I believe that being in a room filled with buzzed/drunk strangers who're packing is far more dangerous than the off-chance that somebody might jump me in a parking lot.

    Don't like it?? Stay out of bars in Florida and any other state that prohibits such carrying.
    Then there is clearly no reason to carry at all... I mean, the BG are clearly imaginary (since it's not happened outside the establishments that you know). We hire police officers for this reason, to prevent, stop, head off crimes, so why would ordinary people, doing ordinary things, in the course of their ordinary lives need to carry.

    People don't need to carry in bars/restaurants 'cause bad things don't happen
    People don't need to carry in churches 'cause bad things don't happen
    People don't need to carry on school campuses 'cause bad things don't happen
    People don't need to carry into government buildings (post offices, police stations, etc.) 'cause bad things don't happen.

    This is the mantra.... learn it... live it... believe it... 'cause clearly we have imagined all the bad things that we thought were happening around us. And behaving like responsible adults, we are only likely to MAKE it happen because we cannot be trusted.

    and NO... I do not slap a Brady label in people that disagree with me... I use that label for folks that believe that "people" cannot be trusted with guns and the government should ban/regulate/restrict their activities. As for Florida law, should I have the occassion to be in Florida, I will follow the laws that are in place because I AM a responsible adult... Can you say the same for criminals with the intent to commit a crime - will they too follow the laws that state the armed robbery is illegal ? or that murder is illegal ?

    Just because you haven't seen it... doesn't make it less real nor does my belief that it could happen make it more real !
    Life Member GeorgiaCarry.org http://www.GeorgiaCarry.org

  11. Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Hey NavyLT: Check me if I am wrong but you are for an after-the-fact crackdown and arrest on 2A or CC or OC, meaning that after you have either shot someone or are walking down the street waving your firearm, totally wasted or seemingly above 08, someone or society should do something about it---I guess we should also close the barn door after all the cows are gone---it makes no sense. You do not believe that anyone should limit your 2A, CC or OC because you are a responsible person and can be trusted to take care of yourself. I understand where you are going in a perfect world but when you witness or have been intimately involved in a car accident(this could be a firearm) with deaths because someone believes that they can be trusted to take care of themselves and not be intoxicated when they drive (or carry), it tends to change their minds about your argument. If you can really tell me what in the world is so darn difficult to understand or agree to about having society impose a limit on alcohol or any drug ingestion as it relates to dangerous activities that can injure, maim, or even kill someone, I would like to know what it is. If your answer is about personal responsibility and 2A et al, I would suggest that you may understand your responsibilities but, just based on statistics alone, there are many out there who do not. Yes, this is mostly about driving but it easily follows that it is about firearms. I absolutely agree with your premise but this is not a perfect world and, in this instance, asking you to basically not drink if you drive or CC is not asking a whole lot. It sure as heck is a lot less than Brady etal are asking about, which is a red herring, IMO, in this whole argument.
    Let's compare your argument to drinking and driving, shall we? If we enacted the same types of laws that you suggest for carrying a firearm, to driving, then we would need to enact a law that made it illegal to drive to a bar. Or be in possession of car keys while intoxicated. Is that a good idea? By how many factors more are people killed by cars with drunk drivers than shot by drunks with guns? 100x? 1000x? Yet I haven't heard of one instance where someone has suggested making it illegal to drive a car to a bar, or possess car keys while drinking. Why is that? Wouldn't that be "logical" and "reasonable regulation?"

    Again, you are focusing on the mere possession of the gun, rather than the irresponsible use of the gun. Why? Because it's easier to sell that way. All I am saying is that just happens to be the way the Brady Campaign and other anti-gun groups do business. It's much easier to regulate the object itself or possession of the object, than it is to regulate the behavior of the person USING the object.

    It is illegal to OPERATE a car while intoxicated. Everybody here will say that's enough right? Well, why the hell is it not enough to say it should be illegal to OPERATE a gun while intoxicated? Why the double standard?
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

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