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Thread: Alcohol and concealed carry

  1. #81
    Let's start Prohibition again, it went so well the last time!
    Ed
    "The tree of Liberty needs to be watered from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson 3rd president of US (1743 - 1826)

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  3. #82
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    What is with this kindergarden discussion already? You have been given permission and very big responsibility to CC. The same can be said for driving a car. There is a difference between being totally irresponsible and not capable of making decisions because of alcohol content and, for the law and driving, that is the magic 08. Maybe I am making a big leap in faith, but I would say that standard could also be considered a starting point to argue alcohol and CC; you can kill with a car and you can kill with a firearm so my initial thought would be that if 08 is good enough to make decisions in a car, it should be good enough to walk around CC. I certainly understand the difference between a car and a firearm as to an immediate, instantaneous threat but the point really is a measure of your abilities to control yourself as if you had not been drinking and 08 seems to be that point, or at least it has been determined such by "authorities and medical people". In my book, in either case, you have been given a privilege to drive or CC and if you fail to live up to it, it should be taken away from you--the penalties are another subject and are open to discussion. IMO, any second time is the last time; car or firearm--they both kill.

  4. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    What is with this kindergarden discussion already? You have been given permission and very big responsibility to CC. The same can be said for driving a car. There is a difference between being totally irresponsible and not capable of making decisions because of alcohol content and, for the law and driving, that is the magic 08. Maybe I am making a big leap in faith, but I would say that standard could also be considered a starting point to argue alcohol and CC; you can kill with a car and you can kill with a firearm so my initial thought would be that if 08 is good enough to make decisions in a car, it should be good enough to walk around CC. I certainly understand the difference between a car and a firearm as to an immediate, instantaneous threat but the point really is a measure of your abilities to control yourself as if you had not been drinking and 08 seems to be that point, or at least it has been determined such by "authorities and medical people". In my book, in either case, you have been given a privilege to drive or CC and if you fail to live up to it, it should be taken away from you--the penalties are another subject and are open to discussion. IMO, any second time is the last time; car or firearm--they both kill.
    I'm not addressing a legal limit. I'm addressing a person's reason for being armed in the first place in light of their consumption of alcohol.

    When I am armed it is because I believe there is a risk, however so slight, that I may need my weapon to defend my life. I'm not going to reduce my ability to use my weapon for it's intended purpose (defending my life) by consuming alcohol.

    There are people who open carry locked and loaded in order to eliminate as much delay and interference with their ability to respond to a threat. Others might use a safety after balancing their personal perception of the risks. Others may not carry with one in the chamber.

    But whatever your personal choice of level of readiness, drinking alcohol negates your readiness level whatever it may be.

    Before you have that first sip, do a Dirty Harry and ask yourself how lucky you feel today. Is today the day you'll need all your senses at their maximum capacity to safe your life? No? Then today is not a day that you need to carry. Go ahead and enjoy whatever mind altering drug you please.

  5. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    What is with this kindergarden discussion already?
    And related to that, why do I see an ad for "Asian singles for dating" in this thread? What does that have to do with anything mentioned on this thread?

  6. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    I'm not addressing a legal limit. I'm addressing a person's reason for being armed in the first place in light of their consumption of alcohol.

    When I am armed it is because I believe there is a risk, however so slight, that I may need my weapon to defend my life. I'm not going to reduce my ability to use my weapon for it's intended purpose (defending my life) by consuming alcohol.

    There are people who open carry locked and loaded in order to eliminate as much delay and interference with their ability to respond to a threat. Others might use a safety after balancing their personal perception of the risks. Others may not carry with one in the chamber.

    But whatever your personal choice of level of readiness, drinking alcohol negates your readiness level whatever it may be.

    Before you have that first sip, do a Dirty Harry and ask yourself how lucky you feel today. Is today the day you'll need all your senses at their maximum capacity to safe your life? No? Then today is not a day that you need to carry. Go ahead and enjoy whatever mind altering drug you please.
    and I/m quite sure that if someone comes along with the intent to do you harm... you can just turn to them and say... "Oh... I've had a beer today and so decided that I would be safer not carrying my firearm... you understand I'm sure... can we do this another day..."

    Yup... that'll work

    As I said before (and as kel has just pointed out...) we are supposed to be adults, not inexperienced children... If you feel that YOU cannot be responsible enough to control your drinking when you do go out, PLEASE feel free to leave your keys and your gun at home, but do not assume that YOUR inability to control your own impluses is a reflection of everyone else. This is the same mentality that assumes that ANY person that carries a gun will eventually snap and go into a killing rage - we should therefore ban ALL guns to ensure that it does not happen.

    For myself, I am a responsible adult and have learned not to go out and drink til I puke. I left that phase behind when I was in high school. If I screw up, I accept the consequences of my actions - as I do every day that I carry. The law (in one of it's rare moments) accords me the privilege of being an adult, I intend to keep that privilege by not abusing it.
    Life Member GeorgiaCarry.org http://www.GeorgiaCarry.org

  7. Quote Originally Posted by BruceGAtl View Post
    and I/m quite sure that if someone comes along with the intent to do you harm... you can just turn to them and say... "Oh... I've had a beer today and so decided that I would be safer not carrying my firearm... you understand I'm sure... can we do this another day..."

    Yup... that'll work

    As I said before (and as kel has just pointed out...) we are supposed to be adults, not inexperienced children... If you feel that YOU cannot be responsible enough to control your drinking when you do go out, PLEASE feel free to leave your keys and your gun at home, but do not assume that YOUR inability to control your own impluses is a reflection of everyone else. This is the same mentality that assumes that ANY person that carries a gun will eventually snap and go into a killing rage - we should therefore ban ALL guns to ensure that it does not happen.

    For myself, I am a responsible adult and have learned not to go out and drink til I puke. I left that phase behind when I was in high school. If I screw up, I accept the consequences of my actions - as I do every day that I carry. The law (in one of it's rare moments) accords me the privilege of being an adult, I intend to keep that privilege by not abusing it.
    Very good post.

    If we assume the responsibilities of carrying responsibly, then we can certainly assume the responsibilities of drinking responsibly.

    To say that any amount of alcohol negates the wisdom of carrying would also say that any amount of alcohol makes one too drunk to drive a car. Any amount...one beer (for that matter, one sip of one beer), no matter the size of the person, or any other factors involved.

    Of course that is not true.

    If you're going to drive, it is your responsibility to limit your drinking. If you are carrying, it is your responsibility to limit your drinking.

    If we're adult enough to carry a firearm, we should be adult enough to know how much alcohol is enough.

    And now that I think of it...that Coors Light I enjoyed at the restaurant Saturday night (with my XD in my pocket) really tasted great with my Fajitas.

    mistergus75

  8. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by BruceGAtl View Post
    For myself, I am a responsible adult and have learned not to go out and drink til I puke. I left that phase behind when I was in high school. If I screw up, I accept the consequences of my actions - as I do every day that I carry. The law (in one of it's rare moments) accords me the privilege of being an adult, I intend to keep that privilege by not abusing it.
    A responsible adult knows that any amount of alcohol has an impact on ones motor skills, senses, and judgment. There is no threshold. The impact is progressive.

    People who think they can drink alcohol without it affecting their system are delusional.

    Alcohol affects every organ in the body, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. It depresses the central nervous system because it is absorbed directly into the bloodstream. Even though the liver tries to metabolize alcohol, it can only work with a small amount at a time. What is not metabolized circulates throughout body and can affect motor skills.

    Dutch researchers recently completed a study on the effects of "moderate" alcohol consumption. The lead author on the study is K. Richard Ridderinkhof of the University of Amsterdam and the Leiden University. It's published by the online edition of the journal Science called the Sciencexpress and depicts the slowed processes of brain functions due to impaired ability by even smaller amounts of alcohol equal to one drink.

    The volunteers experienced an error rate of about 4.8 percent on placebo, but after the first drink the errors soared to 19.8 percent. Drinking alcohol also reduced processing speed.

    Changes in brain action were quickly detected, leading the researchers to conclude that even a small amount of alcohol was enough to erode the mind's ability to detect and correct errors.

    Measures of brain waves showed that the small doses of alcohol quickly affected the anterior cingulate cortex or ACC, a part of the brain that influences thinking processes and the unconscious detection of error.

    Studies have shown that:

    At .02% Blood Alcohol Concentration:

    -Some loss of judgment
    -Relaxation
    -Slight body warmth
    -Altered mood
    -Decline in visual functions (rapid tracking of a moving target)
    -Decline in ability to perform two tasks at the same time (divided attention)

    At .05% Blood Alcohol Concentration:

    -Muscle coordination becomes poor (e.g., balance, speech, vision, reaction time, and hearing)
    -Harder to detect danger
    -Judgment, self-control, reasoning, and memory are impaired
    -Reduced information processing capability (e.g., signal detection, visual search)
    -Impaired perception

    Moreover, alcohol inhibits your ability to recognize the impact it is having on you. So although your loss of motor skills can be measured from just one drink, you will swear you are not impaired

    But to hell with science - you all are "responsible enough when to stop drinking..."

    The truth is one who thinks like that is not responsible to start drinking in the first place.

    And those who drink and carry lose the "I have the right to protect myself" claim because if they wanted to protect themselves they wouldn't be drinking in the first place if they seriously thought they would need to draw their weapon in self defense.

    The last question on the background check should be: "Do you think any amount of alcohol will impact on your motor skills, sensory perception and reaction time?"

    Answer no, and the response should be "No gun for you today! Next!"

  9. Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    A responsible adult knows that any amount of alcohol has an impact on ones motor skills, senses, and judgment. There is no threshold. The impact is progressive.

    People who think they can drink alcohol without it affecting their system are delusional.

    Alcohol affects every organ in the body, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. It depresses the central nervous system because it is absorbed directly into the bloodstream. Even though the liver tries to metabolize alcohol, it can only work with a small amount at a time. What is not metabolized circulates throughout body and can affect motor skills.
    nogods,

    I confess I haven't plowed through this whole thread (scanned, rather), so if you've already covered this, please forgive me.

    Just to understand where you're coming from...

    Do you believe it's wrong for Christians to drink, even moderately?

    mistergus75

  10. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by mistergus75 View Post
    nogods,

    I confess I haven't plowed through this whole thread (scanned, rather), so if you've already covered this, please forgive me.

    Just to understand where you're coming from...

    Do you believe it's wrong for Christians to drink, even moderately?

    mistergus75
    I'm not anti-alcohol. I don't see it as a legal or moral issue. I think it is practical consideration.

    My point is that most of us carry because we want to be ready to defend our lives. When we ingest alcohol we are inhibiting that readiness.

  11. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    A responsible adult knows that any amount of alcohol has an impact on ones motor skills, senses, and judgment. There is no threshold. The impact is progressive.

    People who think they can drink alcohol without it affecting their system are delusional.

    Alcohol affects every organ in the body, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. It depresses the central nervous system because it is absorbed directly into the bloodstream. Even though the liver tries to metabolize alcohol, it can only work with a small amount at a time. What is not metabolized circulates throughout body and can affect motor skills.

    Dutch researchers recently completed a study on the effects of "moderate" alcohol consumption. The lead author on the study is K. Richard Ridderinkhof of the University of Amsterdam and the Leiden University. It's published by the online edition of the journal Science called the Sciencexpress and depicts the slowed processes of brain functions due to impaired ability by even smaller amounts of alcohol equal to one drink.

    The volunteers experienced an error rate of about 4.8 percent on placebo, but after the first drink the errors soared to 19.8 percent. Drinking alcohol also reduced processing speed.

    Changes in brain action were quickly detected, leading the researchers to conclude that even a small amount of alcohol was enough to erode the mind's ability to detect and correct errors.

    Measures of brain waves showed that the small doses of alcohol quickly affected the anterior cingulate cortex or ACC, a part of the brain that influences thinking processes and the unconscious detection of error.

    Studies have shown that:

    At .02% Blood Alcohol Concentration:

    -Some loss of judgment
    -Relaxation
    -Slight body warmth
    -Altered mood
    -Decline in visual functions (rapid tracking of a moving target)
    -Decline in ability to perform two tasks at the same time (divided attention)

    At .05% Blood Alcohol Concentration:

    -Muscle coordination becomes poor (e.g., balance, speech, vision, reaction time, and hearing)
    -Harder to detect danger
    -Judgment, self-control, reasoning, and memory are impaired
    -Reduced information processing capability (e.g., signal detection, visual search)
    -Impaired perception

    Moreover, alcohol inhibits your ability to recognize the impact it is having on you. So although your loss of motor skills can be measured from just one drink, you will swear you are not impaired

    But to hell with science - you all are "responsible enough when to stop drinking..."

    The truth is one who thinks like that is not responsible to start drinking in the first place.

    And those who drink and carry lose the "I have the right to protect myself" claim because if they wanted to protect themselves they wouldn't be drinking in the first place if they seriously thought they would need to draw their weapon in self defense.

    The last question on the background check should be: "Do you think any amount of alcohol will impact on your motor skills, sensory perception and reaction time?"

    Answer no, and the response should be "No gun for you today! Next!"
    Here's another way of putting it.

    0.00 g/210 liters of breath - This is the only safe BAC level.
    0.02 g/210 liters of breath - At and above this level US federal laws mandate that a person in a safety sensitive transportation job must be removed from the workplace.
    0.04 g/210 liters of breath - At and above this level US federal laws mandate that a person in a safety sensitive transportation job must be sanctioned and may lose their job. Also in most states a person can be convicted of driving under the influence at this level.
    0.08 g/210 liters of breath - At and above this level you can be convicted of driving while intoxicated in ALL states.
    0.30 g/210 liters of breath - At this level most people will lose conciousness.
    0.40 g/210 liters of breath - At this level most people will become comatose and may die.

    Many people get arrested while driving in the .16 range.

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