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Thread: Common Sense, reasonable regulation, etc...

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lakeland Man View Post
    I read, in another thread, the "polite and civil discussion" about common sense equaling reasonable regulation, etc.

    My opinion on it is this. I think it is reasonable and prudent to expect a potential CCW holder to have at least a minimum of knowledge on how to handle their firearm and the laws surrounding its use. Training is NEVER wasted, if it is good training. I have personally known several people who shouldn't even be in the same county as a firearm, let alone be allowed to carry one. (because they're dumber than rocks)

    I have worked as a LEO and I've seen many people who have legally carried a firearm and they've been careless or ignorant about that very grave responsibility.

    Years before, I worked at a gun shop/public shooting range. I witnessed customers bringing their guns into the range and watched them shoot holes in partitions, ceilings, and floors because they were completely clueless about how their new weapon worked. In every case, I exercised my right as the range master and took the firearm away from them and suggested (in the strongest possible terms, and with a minimum of profanity) that they take a course and learn which end the lead comes out before returning to MY range.

    I know some of the poster here will state their position that there shouldn't be ANY requirement that someone be trained or regulated in order to carry a firearm. That is their position and I respect that. I just happen to disagree with them. As I said, training is never a bad idea.

    Ready on the right?
    Ready on the left?
    Ready on the line?
    The flag is up, commence firing!
    I must agree with you. I became an instructor to ensure safety as those who are negligent harm our sport. They give the Brady people and VPC a defendable position. It is a smart man who seeks out training on his own despite the law. If for nothing else than to become a better shooter. In NY CCW applicants must complete NRA First Steps Pistol but are not required to shoot or qualify. It is merely for the safety training.

    Those who want an unrestricted CCW permit should take NRA PPOTH. This arms them with knowledge of the law, proper methods of carry, additional safety training and experience in moving and shooting. They learn topics like deterrence, avoidance and de-escalation. They learn to never draw a gun unless it is the very last resort. They learn that should they use their gun, even in lawfull self-defense, it will probably still ruin their life. These topics are taught for their own good.

    Our PPITH and PPOTH classes are jammed. So much that, even with five instructors, we have a waiting list. These are people who are seeking out training and education, not out of some legal requirement, but for their own knowledge.

    "Dangerous Man Syndrome" includes those who are so ignorant that they believe they know everything about firearms because dad hunted, grandad could hit the crow in flight and because they were raised around guns. These types may have been trained properly but my experience is that they've developed bad habits that must be broken. The male ego is a large entity. I'd rather teach women as they usually have no ingrained bad habits or ego to be overcome (I'm gonna catch hell for that statement).
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

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  3. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight View Post
    The difference is that driving isn't protected as a Constitutional Amendment. Give them an inch, and they'll take a mile. We've seen the kind of unintended consequences that "reasonable regulations" can cause. Besides, cars cause more deaths per year than guns do, but you don't hear about people wanting to ban cars.

    I, for one, believe people should be able to purchase and carry any kind of firearm they want with no restrictions whatsoever.
    Midnight, I undestand that if we give them an inch they'll take a mile. Absolutely. But does this mean we should hand over a gun to convicted/released murderers, child molesters, sex offenders, those who have commited robberies or acts of violence against others? Many states strip them of their right to vote, which is protected by the constitution but regulated by states rights provisions.

    I don't believe the government should make you register your gun but I do believe that we must limit those who carry a concealed weapon to the law-abiing citizenry who take a safety class and pass a background check. Roughly 2.5 of everyy 100 men are sociopaths and/or will commit some type of misdemeanor or violation in their lifetime. Studies show that those investigated prior to issueing a CCW permit are much less likely than the average person to commit a crime.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  4. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by buddy View Post
    Treo, not trying to hijack the thread, or even start an argument here, but I did not serve, so I am curious about your response. As a civilian, I could morally raise my hand against rioters in my town who were destroying my city, business, etc. I am guessing you are answering that way because of posse commitatus? (I know, I spelled it wrong)
    I actually didn't know about posse comitatus at the time. As I saw it they were asking us to beat up on Americans who were peacefully exercising their right to protest. My Platoon SGT made it crystal clear that's what he had in mind.

    Different circumstances my drive other people. My point is that I recieved an order that I felt to be morally wrong, as well as unconstitutional, and I rejected it.

    Same as the Utah National Guard (Which some who claim to be Oath Keepers here would do well to remember) when they refused to participate in the confiscation of civilian weapons after Katrina
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  5. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Midnight, I undestand that if we give them an inch they'll take a mile. Absolutely. But does this mean we should hand over a gun to convicted/released murderers, child molesters, sex offenders, those who have commited robberies or acts of violence against others? Many states strip them of their right to vote, which is protected by the constitution but regulated by states rights provisions.
    Please feel free to cite a single instance of anyone participating in this thread stating that such should be the case .

    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    I don't believe the government should make you register your gun but I do believe that we must limit those who carry a concealed weapon to the law-abiing citizenry who take a safety class and pass a background check. Roughly 2.5 of everyy 100 men are sociopaths and/or will commit some type of misdemeanor or violation in their lifetime. Studies show that those investigated prior to issueing a CCW permit are much less likely than the average person to commit a crime.
    And you somehow think that requiring me to get a permit and pay a fee to conceal (I can already OC w/out a license) my pistol is going to stop them?

    Or do you feel that not requiring a permit ( As is the case in Vermont, Alaska, Arizona and Wyoming) some how does away w/ the federal prohibited possserors act?

    Wouldn't that be similar to combating drunk driving by making it harder for sober men to get a license?
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  6. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by S&WM&P40 View Post
    People such as your self. Who are willing to attack fellow citzens make me SICK! Solders who are willing to attack and murder US citizens because they where told to do so is a COPOUT!

    If I saw our own military doing such a thing I would no longer concider them our military. I would look at them and treat them like a foreign military. As such no quarter would be given!!

    This whole "I was only following orders" Is as I said COPOUT that people hide behind. Coming from a huge military family, mostly officers I can tell you they would not have been able to give such a order.
    You're taking a lot for granted in your statement. Are you saying that there is NO justification for using force against a fellow citizen? Suppose that citizen was attempting an armed overthrow of the US Government? Perhaps they were attempting to murder a public official. For that matter, every day in this country, a LEO may be called upon to use deadly force (or a lesser level of force) against a fellow citizen. So you can keep your scorn. It bothers me not. I am secure in the knowledge that I did my duty and served my country honorably, both under a helmet and behind a badge.

  7. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lakeland Man View Post
    You're taking a lot for granted in your statement. Are you saying that there is NO justification for using force against a fellow citizen? Suppose that citizen was attempting an armed overthrow of the US Government? Perhaps they were attempting to murder a public official. For that matter, every day in this country, a LEO may be called upon to use deadly force (or a lesser level of force) against a fellow citizen. So you can keep your scorn. It bothers me not. I am secure in the knowledge that I did my duty and served my country honorably, both under a helmet and behind a badge.

    How's that lifetime membership to AHSA working out for you?
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  8. #97
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    Once again nogods and b2tall get their behinds handed to them and FAIL to prove anything except they know nothing of the Constitution and our Rights......

    I actually think I will finally put them on ignore now, I have waited very patiently for them to make any rational argument, and they have proven to be unable to in thread after thread and post after post....... They are prime examples that some people just will NEVER get "it" (freedom).

  9. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Lakeland Man View Post
    You're taking a lot for granted in your statement. Are you saying that there is NO justification for using force against a fellow citizen? Suppose that citizen was attempting an armed overthrow of the US Government? Perhaps they were attempting to murder a public official. For that matter, every day in this country, a LEO may be called upon to use deadly force (or a lesser level of force) against a fellow citizen. So you can keep your scorn. It bothers me not. I am secure in the knowledge that I did my duty and served my country honorably, both under a helmet and behind a badge.
    When people refure to our military as mindless strom troopers it's people such as yourself to who they are refering to.

    As for LEO's in this country. Thanking you hitting the nail on the head! They are to quick and willing to use force on a subject and or frame them. Look at the gap that has forumed because of years of LEO corrutption. No longer are kids told "The one person you can always trust is a police officer". Kids/the public in genreal have more distrust and disrepect for police officers now more then ever.

    Now that you bring it up, I think I remember seeing your face plastered all over the news. You where one of the strom troopers sworn to up hold the Constitution. Yet you where removing firearms from the vary people you swore a oath to protect/RIGHTS included. Was that not you I saw on the news in post Katrina?

    FYI, the Constitution has/was not admended at that time you decided to not up hold your oath.

    THEY MAY TAKE OUR LIVES BUT THEY'LL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!

  10. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Midnight, I undestand that if we give them an inch they'll take a mile. Absolutely. But does this mean we should hand over a gun to convicted/released murderers, child molesters, sex offenders, those who have commited robberies or acts of violence against others? Many states strip them of their right to vote, which is protected by the constitution but regulated by states rights provisions.

    I don't believe the government should make you register your gun but I do believe that we must limit those who carry a concealed weapon to the law-abiing citizenry who take a safety class and pass a background check. Roughly 2.5 of everyy 100 men are sociopaths and/or will commit some type of misdemeanor or violation in their lifetime. Studies show that those investigated prior to issueing a CCW permit are much less likely than the average person to commit a crime.
    Where exactly is the right to vote in the constitution?

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    I actually think I will finally put them on ignore now, I have waited very patiently for them to make any rational argument, and they have proven to be unable to in thread after thread and post after post....... They are prime examples that some people just will NEVER get "it" (freedom).
    I looked for the ignore option and can't find it... I'll have to look some more.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

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