Common Sense, reasonable regulation, etc... - Page 6
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Thread: Common Sense, reasonable regulation, etc...

  1. Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    In my state, private property owners take steps to protect their premises from crime.
    You mean like this?:

    Wal-Mart Security Employees Fired for Disarming Store Gunman

    That certainly makes me feel safe....
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

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  3. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    How well did things work out for Heller and McDonald, hmmmm? You do recognize those two names? Heller and McDonald recognized that they had rights protected under the Constitution that their governments were not recognizing and took their cases to the Supreme Court and won big landmark decisions in all of our favors. Now, if Heller and McDonald, and indeed the Founding Fathers had the same mindset as you and B2Tall, none of us would have handguns because we would still be under the British handgun ban! If Heller and McDonald were of the same mindset as you, there would still be a handgun ban in place in Washington D.C. and any city or state could ban any firearm they wanted, wherever they wanted to.

    I am glad that the majority of Americans are not of your mindset... that the government is simply free to do whatever it wants to, under the false banner of "the majority wants it." Again, I point to Obama health care as a prime example of the government doing whatever the hell it wants to, claiming "the majority wants it".
    So...then...you don't own firearms for the purpose of using them against government employees who come knocking on your door to collect your firearms...instead you'll do just as Heller and McDonald did...you'll obey the law and work through the system to resolve your dispute with our elected government.

    None of us has suggested anything else. The fact that we don't agree with your "any gun, any where, any time" position has nothing to do with the issue.

    We can discuss "what should be" but we can't have an intelligent discussion if people are going to insist "what should be" is "what is."

    You, like me, apparently believe in the system and you are presently, and will in the future will continue, submitting to it.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    So...then...you don't own firearms for the purpose of using them against government employees who come knocking on your door to collect your firearms...instead you'll do just as Heller and McDonald did...you'll obey the law and work through the system to resolve your dispute with our elected government.

    None of us has suggested anything else. The fact that we don't agree with your "any gun, any where, any time" position has nothing to do with the issue.

    We can discuss "what should be" but we can't have an intelligent discussion if people are going to insist "what should be" is "what is."

    You, like me, apparently believe in the system and you are presently, and will in the future will continue, submitting to it.
    What you are speaking of above depends upon the severity of the situation at hand. Do I own guns for the specific purpose of shooting at the government? NO.

    If government agents come knocking at my door to confiscate my guns because the government has put into effect a firearms ban without repealing the 2nd Amendment, will I hand over my guns to them willingly? NO.

    Will I die attempting to retain my right to keep and bear arms if the government bans guns and tries to confiscate them from me without repealing the 2nd Amendment? Probably.

    If the 3/4 majority of states in this country repeal the 2nd Amendment, will I seek residence in another country? Definitely.

    I honestly don't think any of the above would ever happen, but anything is possible.

    I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against ALL enemies both foreign AND DOMESTIC and to obey the orders of the President of the United States. If those two terms ever conflict with each other, I feel my duty is to the Constitution first.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  5. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    If the 3/4 majority of states in this country repeal the 2nd Amendment, will I seek residence in another country? Definitely.


    I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against ALL enemies both foreign AND DOMESTIC and to obey the orders of the President of the United States. If those two terms ever conflict with each other, I feel my duty is to the Constitution first.
    Those two statements conflict with each other. Your oath, like mine, was to support and defend the constitution. If the constitution is changed by a 3/4th majority of the states, your oath is still valid. You swore to support and defend, not to support and defend the constitution the way YOU think it should be.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    That fact that a private citizen may be armed on our premises has never been shown to dissuade a crackhead from attempting a holdup.
    The point is not that an armed populace will be a deterrent. The point is that the crackhead will have his head blown away before he can kill someone. Has anyone ever tried to rob your premises? Here's a good story from my own home state.


  7. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight View Post
    The point is not that an armed populace will be a deterrent. The point is that the crackhead will have his head blown away before he can kill someone.

    I prefer to determine on my premises who will do the "blowing away" and under what circumstances that will happen.

    I can't check the references, the experience, the competence, or impose my armed robbery policies on every customers who thinks I need their help keeping an armed robber from getting away with money that can be replaced.

    I can't be filter out customers with defective weapons that fire unexpectedly, or customers who can't seem to secure their firearm on their body to prevent unintentional discharges.

    What I can do is prohibit customers from having a weapon on them while on my premises and hire competent security personal who are obligated to following my customer safety plan to deal with anyone who ignores my rules, instead of expecting each individual customer to make separate and distinct determinations of those matters.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    What I can do is prohibit customers from having a weapon on them while on my premises and hire competent security personal who are obligated to following my customer safety plan to deal with anyone who ignores my rules, instead of expecting each individual customer to make separate and distinct determinations of those matters.
    You're a hypocrite. Business owners like you claim that safety for their patrons is of the upmost importance, but then you don't actually do anything to ensure safety. Unless you're doing pat-downs and using metal detectors and x-rays for everyone who goes into your establishment, you're not really doing anything to ensure the safety of patrons. On the other hand, your silly little signs and half-way trained security guards aren't going to do anything to stop a madman. People like you make me sick. GTFO.

  9. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    If government agents come knocking at my door to confiscate my guns because the government has put into effect a firearms ban without repealing the 2nd Amendment, will I hand over my guns to them willingly? NO.

    Will I die attempting to retain my right to keep and bear arms if the government bans guns and tries to confiscate them from me without repealing the 2nd Amendment? Probably.
    So instead of doing as Heller and McDonald, you'd take matters into your own hands and fight to the death!

    But if you thought the law was unconstitutional, why not work your claims through the system like Heller and McDonald did?

    Now lets be serious, I'll bet if a government agent read your post on this forum, improperly concluded you were a threat, lied to secured a subpoena for your isp, then secured your name and address from your isp, then lied to obtained a search warrant to seize your guns, we will not be reading about a firefight at your house.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Lakeland Man View Post
    Those two statements conflict with each other. Your oath, like mine, was to support and defend the constitution. If the constitution is changed by a 3/4th majority of the states, your oath is still valid. You swore to support and defend, not to support and defend the constitution the way YOU think it should be.
    Basic human rights come before the Constitution.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Midnight View Post
    You're a hypocrite. Business owners like you claim that safety for their patrons is of the upmost importance, but then you don't actually do anything to ensure safety. Unless you're doing pat-downs and using metal detectors and x-rays for everyone who goes into your establishment, you're not really doing anything to ensure the safety of patrons. On the other hand, your silly little signs and half-way trained security guards aren't going to do anything to stop a madman. People like you make me sick. GTFO.
    Sounds to me like nogods wants nobody to be armed but himself and the criminals. He belongs with the Brady Campaign.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

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