Common Sense, reasonable regulation, etc... - Page 8
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Thread: Common Sense, reasonable regulation, etc...

  1. #71
    First: Treo...If I were still on active duty, then I would be duty bound to support the constitution, whether I agreed with it or not. That was the oath I took.

    Second: Midnight...Maybe if you used smaller words.

    There is no reason to be insulting or condecending to me because I disagree with you. All I ever said was that I feel that training before purchasing or carrying a firearm would be a smart idea. I don't make the laws, and I'm not trying to take away any of your rights (or anyone elses for that matter.) If you don't agree, thats your right. But, by the same token, YOU don't make the laws either. And unless you're a Supreme Court Justice, YOU aren't the final word on interpreting the laws either, even if you think you are.

    I'm not going to get down in the mud with you. I have more class than that.

  2.   
  3. Quote Originally Posted by Lakeland Man View Post
    First: Treo...If I were still on active duty, then I would be duty bound to support the constitution, whether I agreed with it or not. That was the oath I took.

    Second: Midnight...Maybe if you used smaller words.

    There is no reason to be insulting or condecending to me because I disagree with you. All I ever said was that I feel that training before purchasing or carrying a firearm would be a smart idea. I don't make the laws, and I'm not trying to take away any of your rights (or anyone elses for that matter.) If you don't agree, thats your right. But, by the same token, YOU don't make the laws either. And unless you're a Supreme Court Justice, YOU aren't the final word on interpreting the laws either, even if you think you are.

    I'm not going to get down in the mud with you. I have more class than that.
    I said it once, and I'll say it again: give them an inch, and they'll take a mile. The government knows no bounds in what it will do to stop law-abiding citizens from their rights.

  4. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lakeland Man View Post
    First: Treo...If I were still on active duty, then I would be duty bound to support the constitution, whether I agreed with it or not. That was the oath I took.

    I was just following orders, I've heard that before
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  5. #74
    Treo, if you haven't served, then you don't understand. If you HAVE, the we shouldn't be having this discussion.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by Lakeland Man View Post
    Why is it that people with extreme positions have a tendency to be intolerant of the opinions of others.

    Liberals complain and berate conservatives for their views. Conservatives do the same to liberals. They each complain that the other side shouldn't be heard.

    On here, the same holds true. One side ends up insulting the other and the insults fly back and forth. I started this thread for an intelligent discussion of this issue.
    Well, here's what's funny. If I went to the Brady Campaign's forum and posted on there that I thought the 2nd Amendment meant just exactly what is written, and that every person has a right not only to possess a firearm in their house, but to carry (bear) that firearm in public as well, the Brady Bunch would call me a lunatic, a danger to others, and hell bent on overthrowing the government.

    But here, on a pro-gun, pro-self-defense forum, I make the same statement.... AND I GET THE SAME RESULT! This is a forum to support the right to carry a firearm. We get nogods who wants to be his own criminal assassination security force and insists on disarming everyone who comes through his door. We get B2Tall who claims that we all want to give kindergartners guns to take to school to play with, while the parents drive our tanks through the social security office and nuke the White House....

    Give me a break!

    BTW, nobody is arguing with you that training in firearms handling before purchasing a gun or carrying a gun is a bad thing. The government and politicians making what they feel is "reasonable regulation" mandatory is a bad thing.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  7. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Well, here's what's funny. If I went to the Brady Campaign's forum and posted on there that I thought the 2nd Amendment meant just exactly what is written, and that every person has a right not only to possess a firearm in their house, but to carry (bear) that firearm in public as well, the Brady Bunch would call me a lunatic, a danger to others, and hell bent on overthrowing the government.

    But here, on a pro-gun, pro-self-defense forum, I make the same statement.... AND I GET THE SAME RESULT! This is a forum to support the right to carry a firearm. We get nogods who wants to be his own criminal assassination security force and insists on disarming everyone who comes through his door. We get B2Tall who claims that we all want to give kindergartners guns to take to school to play with, while the parents drive our tanks through the social security office and nuke the White House....

    Give me a break!

    BTW, nobody is arguing with you that training in firearms handling before purchasing a gun or carrying a gun is a bad thing. The government and politicians making what they feel is "reasonable regulation" mandatory is a bad thing.
    I would expect that from the Brady bunch. They use that poor guy as a prop for their anti-gun rhetoric. As for the same here, its exactly as I stated...people tend to look down on those who believe differently than they do.

    I agree with your last paragraph though. I don't want my right restricted, but I don't feel that being trained is bad. You are literally carrying the power of life and death in your hand or on your hip.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Lakeland Man View Post
    Treo, if you haven't served, then you don't understand. If you HAVE, the we shouldn't be having this discussion.
    I've served for 27 years, both enlisted and officer. I'm with Treo.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  9. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    I've served for 27 years, both enlisted and officer. I'm with Treo.
    Treo's statement implied that by being true to our oath, we were somehow wrong. I took my oath in good faith, and my word means something, at least to me. You'll have to forgive me if someone calls my own personal morality into question over a hypothetical situation and it bothers me. Maybe I'm just sensitive.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Lakeland Man View Post
    Treo's statement implied that by being true to our oath, we were somehow wrong. I took my oath in good faith, and my word means something, at least to me. You'll have to forgive me if someone calls my own personal morality into question over a hypothetical situation and it bothers me. Maybe I'm just sensitive.
    I think what Treo was trying to say was this: this country was founded upon the principles set forth in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, including it's amendments. IF, somehow, and I doubt it will ever happened, the Bill of Rights was repealed, or even just the 2nd and 4th amendments... the only purpose that could be served by such an act would be to establish a police state. This country was not founded upon the principles of being a police state. This country was founded upon being a nation of free citizens, with the government serving the people - not the government ruling over the people. That is the whole basis for the Constitution, is to keep the government subservient to the people.

    Have we drifted away from that? Absolutely. Has the government grown in power to rule over the people vice serve the people? Absolutely. Has it risen to the level of tyranny, that would result in the citizens' exercising their duty to overthrow the government by force, if necessary? I don't think it has. The recent US Supreme Court decisions on Heller and McDonald show us there is hope. Now, if we could stop the abuse of the interstate commerce clause that has allowed the Federal government to regulate anything they damn well please, we might be in pretty good shape.

    What Treo was saying is that a person who takes the oath to support and defend the Constitution must weigh that against supporting a nation of free citizens. If the Constitution is changed so that it does away with the nation of free citizens, then one must decide which is the higher calling - to keep the oath to support the Constitution regardless of how it is changed... or to support a nation of free citizens. The Declaration of Independence says it is the duty of the citizen to support a nation of free citizens - to the level of violent overthrow of the government if necessary.

    An example would be: would I go door to door and confiscate citizens' guns because the 2nd Amendment was repealed and the Federal government implemented a nationwide firearms ban, just because "I was following orders." The answer, for me personally, is no.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  11. #80
    Well, that may be what he was saying. Personally, I'm insulted by the way he said it.

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