Ignoring Gun Buster signage. - Page 6
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Thread: Ignoring Gun Buster signage.

  1. This is the way I see it.

    As the owner or renter of a property (or their designated representative), they have every right to control and limit what happens on their property.

    My presence on their property is both optional and voluntary- as in I don't have to be there but choose to. When I choose to be on their property, I have an obligation to abide by their wishes. If I have chosen not to do so, then I don't need to be there.

    I agree with the OP on 1 point. It is, in MY OPINION, extremely hypocritical of those of us that so fiercely defend THEIR personal right to carry a firearm to so blithely ignore the right of those in legal control of a property to make the rules on said property because they disagree with it.

    I don't understand the logic of trampling on the rights of others in a blind rush to express your own. THE WAY I SEE IT, if I have to deny some one else their ability to exercising their rights in the pursuit of expressing mine, then I'm the one in the wrong.

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  3. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruger357SP101 View Post
    I dont speed.
    I dont litter.
    I wear a seatbelt every time.

    Why?
    To follow the rules.

    No, you follow the laws. There's a difference.

  4. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtg452 View Post
    This is the way I see it.

    As the owner or renter of a property (or their designated representative), they have every right to control and limit what happens on their property.

    My presence on their property is both optional and voluntary- as in I don't have to be there but choose to. When I choose to be on their property, I have an obligation to abide by their wishes. If I have chosen not to do so, then I don't need to be there.

    I agree with the OP on 1 point. It is, in MY OPINION, extremely hypocritical of those of us that so fiercely defend THEIR personal right to carry a firearm to so blithely ignore the right of those in legal control of a property to make the rules on said property because they disagree with it.

    I don't understand the logic of trampling on the rights of others in a blind rush to express your own. THE WAY I SEE IT, if I have to deny some one else their ability to exercising their rights in the pursuit of expressing mine, then I'm the one in the wrong.

    Then why not the reverse? Why are they right to trample your Rights? You have a right to life and protection, why does that end at the front door? It doesn't.

  5. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by trailboss View Post
    I carry cards with me so when I come across a business with a no-gun sign I give one to the owner/manager.
    What an awesome idea Trailboss!! How long have you been handing out these cards, and where can I get my hands on some? I'd love to do the same.
    NRA Member, Glock 23, Kahr PM 40, Tanfoglio GT 380, S&W mdl 42 .38, Ruger LCP .380, Colt Police Positive .38spl, High Standard Mfg Corp .22

  6. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
    I'm going to take exception to everything you've said here, Ruger.
    Whats new?
    By your mantra, I'm a rule breaker.
    Quite probably.

    Absolutely. Here's the reason why. I also live in a state where no gun signs have no force of law. I carry everywhere I'm legally allowed. I know the law, and where my state legislature has codified are legally off limits.
    There is no way in HECK I'm going to allow some spineless business owner to believe that a felon is going to turn around and not do some nefarious deed to their business because of some sign
    And so when your rights are violated, as you choose to voilate the right of this business owner who has decided he DOESNT want your gun on HIS property, dont expect those who do respect this mans right to be an idiot by posting a sign to come to your aid.
    I know I wont.

    My LIFE (notice I didn't say my right to carry) is MORE important that some policy or rule.
    Yeah....and you only have ONE store in town there, right?

    Reason number two that I'll carry is because the ONLY enforceable property right the owner/lease holder has is for me to "pay now", "leave" and/or "don't return".
    And there ya go...you only obey what you HAVE to obey to keep from going to jail.
    Which is precisely what Im talking about.
    What else do you do that may not be right and honorable but isnt unlawful ?


    Why do you need to bust our chops for what you perceive as wrongs being done to the public, especially when every circumstance is different and may not apply to every carrier?
    Im busting your chops, as you put it because your type is a stain on all of us who RESPECT the RIGHTS of others as WE WANT OUR RIGHTS RESPECTED !

    You have NO BUSINESS crying about YOUR rights not being violated while YOU YOURSELF VIOLATE the rights of others !

    And you set an example that says that gunpackers only do what they have to do to keep from going to jail. They have no respect for NON gun owners rights to post a sign that tells them NO GUNS...which is exactly what the Brady Campaign would love to see.

    And as a final note, just in case you wonder about one voice. I personally found a business I shop at, and carried into on numerous occasions, that had posted "gun buster" signs. I cringed, and read the wording on the signs. Not only did the words they use make absolutely no sense, they couldn't even be bothered to look up the state laws they were posting them under. This was because the store was a chain, with it's corporate HQ in another state. I ignored their sign (although I politely went back to my car and retrieved a sweatshirt to cover up) and carried anyway. I attempted to discuss the matter with the local management. They shrugged and said "it's a corporate decision." So, I politely and strongly e-mailed the corporate offices and informed them not only of the lack of law that they were trying to lay their signage on, but the lack of sense it made to keep those willing to abide by such requests out of their stores when criminals wouldn't listen. I also stated that I'd be notifying a lot of other gun carriers to avoid their stores, and that I wouldn't be in either until the signs were gone.
    I would have disarmed then went back in.
    If you didnt want to honor THEIR right to tell you NO GUNS on their property then just walk away...find another business to patronize.


    They responded that they hadn't thought about the fact that the law (even in their own state) didn't do as described in their signs, they expressed their unwillingness to upset law abiding citizens (and paying customers) and immediately removed all the signs from all their stores. Granted, I wasn't the only one who contacted them, but I was the first, and I was the one to get the first response. One voice can change the rules. Imagine what all our voices together can do?
    And if they had realized you disregarded their sign and brought a gun in anyway? Would they have been so willing to hear your voice?
    I doubt it.
    Maybe they should be informed that you did so they can make a more educated decision?

  7. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
    No, you follow the laws. There's a difference.
    Nice try but the issue there is I could get away with not obeying any of those very easily.
    Its not my fault that the laws here are different than your state about CCW.
    If someone tells me not to do something on their PRIVATE property, I will comply or simply not be on their property.

    Thats just killing you, isnt it.

  8. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by jtg452 View Post
    This is the way I see it.

    As the owner or renter of a property (or their designated representative), they have every right to control and limit what happens on their property.

    My presence on their property is both optional and voluntary- as in I don't have to be there but choose to. When I choose to be on their property, I have an obligation to abide by their wishes. If I have chosen not to do so, then I don't need to be there.

    I agree with the OP on 1 point. It is, in MY OPINION, extremely hypocritical of those of us that so fiercely defend THEIR personal right to carry a firearm to so blithely ignore the right of those in legal control of a property to make the rules on said property because they disagree with it.

    I don't understand the logic of trampling on the rights of others in a blind rush to express your own. THE WAY I SEE IT, if I have to deny some one else their ability to exercising their rights in the pursuit of expressing mine, then I'm the one in the wrong.
    Well said.
    I dont expect we all will agree on every single point, but overall I think most of us agree that if we want our rights to be honored, we should be setting the example by honoring the rights of others...even if we disagree with their views.

  9. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
    Then why not the reverse? Why are they right to trample your Rights? You have a right to life and protection, why does that end at the front door? It doesn't.
    Complete BS, friend.
    There are shops all over town you could go to instead.
    By your nonsense NO ONE is allowed to prohibit ANYthing on their own property because of your 'rights'.
    Gonna bring that stack of porn into a church assembly next just because you have rights?

  10. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruger357SP101 View Post
    Whats new?

    Quite probably.


    And so when your rights are violated, as you choose to voilate the right of this business owner who has decided he DOESNT want your gun on HIS property, dont expect those who do respect this mans right to be an idiot by posting a sign to come to your aid.
    I know I wont.


    Yeah....and you only have ONE store in town there, right?

    And there ya go...you only obey what you HAVE to obey to keep from going to jail.
    Which is precisely what Im talking about.
    What else do you do that may not be right and honorable but isnt unlawful ?


    Im busting your chops, as you put it because your type is a stain on all of us who RESPECT the RIGHTS of others as WE WANT OUR RIGHTS RESPECTED !

    You have NO BUSINESS crying about YOUR rights not being violated while YOU YOURSELF VIOLATE the rights of others !

    And you set an example that says that gunpackers only do what they have to do to keep from going to jail. They have no respect for NON gun owners rights to post a sign that tells them NO GUNS...which is exactly what the Brady Campaign would love to see.


    I would have disarmed then went back in.
    If you didnt want to honor THEIR right to tell you NO GUNS on their property then just walk away...find another business to patronize.



    And if they had realized you disregarded their sign and brought a gun in anyway? Would they have been so willing to hear your voice?
    I doubt it.
    I take offense to you attempting to question my integrity.

    I also wish you wouldn't have picked and chosen to twist and eliminate my words to fit your agenda. Show me where I have a duty to abide by a rule.

    My rights aren't violated by no guns signs. I don't allow a "rule" to violate my rights, as "rules" aren't capable. I don't just "cover" when no gun signs are present, I keep my sidearm in plain view. They can ask me to leave, and I will. That's the right they have.

    And for the record, I did inform the company when I e-mailed them that I carried anyway. Not a peep about breaking their "rules" when they responded.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
    Then why not the reverse? Why are they right to trample your Rights? You have a right to life and protection, why does that end at the front door? It doesn't.
    I stance on the question was in my post.

    "My presence on their property is both optional and voluntary- as in I don't have to be there but choose to. When I choose to be on their property, I have an obligation to abide by their wishes. If I have chosen not to do so, then I don't need to be there."

    When you go onto their property, it's their house and their rules. If you don't want to follow their rules, simply don't go there.

    They aren't saying that you can't own a gun. They aren't saying that you can't carry a gun. They ARE, however, saying that they prefer that you don't carry a gun on their property.

    Look at it this way.

    If you don't want folks smoking in your living room, then I shouldn't fire up a cigar while sitting on your couch.

    Why shouldn't I?

    That's the same principle. I am over the legal age to buy tobacco products and can do so if I wish.

    What gives you, in the example above, the right to say that I can't smoke if I want to?

    (Insert your answer here.)

    THAT'S what gives them the right to say they don't want you carrying a gun at their place of business.

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