Sheep Dogs - Page 2
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 34

Thread: Sheep Dogs

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post

    Sheepdogs are not part of the flock they are employed to impose the owner’s will on the sheep, by force if necessary. They guard the flock because it is of benefit to the owner and they have no qualms about herding the flock to a slaughterhouse if that is what the owner commands. Sheep dog is not an appellation I would care to have applied to me.
    Actually it depends on which type of sheep dog the reference is made toward. A HERDING dog is just as you described. And they are NOT guardians of the flock, such as a Border Collie. However, a sheep GUARDIAN is just as described in the article. They are raised as one of the flock, their "brethern" are other sheep in the flock and they will fight to the death any "wolf" that endangeres the flock, such as a Great Pyrenees. They do not and will not herd the sheep, but they live with them as one and will often die to protect "their own". So the analogy in the OP may well be correct, depending on which "type" of sheepdog you "fancy" yourself, if that is what you wish to do.
    "I have tried to live my life so that my family would love me and my friends respect me. The others can do whatever the "heck" they please".-John Wayne

  2.   
  3. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Toronto, Ohio
    Posts
    766
    Blog Entries
    10
    Treo,
    You said, "Sheepdogs are not part of the flock they are employed to impose the owner’s will on the sheep, by force if necessary".
    Evidently you have never been around sheepdogs, you are referring to herding dogs, there is a world of difference.
    I raise sheep and the sheep dogs I refer to are guard dogs.
    We have two Great Pyrenees with the flock and they could care less what the owner wants, their job is to protect their sheep.
    They don't go out looking for trouble, but if it appears they will give their life to protect their sheep.
    When a predator crosses their boundary lines the first thing they do is take their sheep to the barn, after the sheep are safe they go out to meet the intruder be it man or beast.
    Everyone knows who the sheepdogs are and who the sheep are.
    My dogs would rather lay on a hill in the sunshine and watch their sheep graze than fight.
    I guess I agree with my dogs, but I will never be a sheep.
    “Every step we take towards making the State our Caretaker of our lives, by that much we move toward making the State our Master.” – Dwight D. Eisenhower

  4. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Posts
    211
    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    That right there is the problem. I wasn't issued a CHP to "defend the innocent" I carry a gun for my self defense not to intervene in situation that I really know nothing about.

    I have never met anyone who takes this "sheepdog" crap seriously that isn't a mall ninja at heart
    Could not agree more. In my state, where open carry is legal and a CHP is not that hard to get, there are no "innocent bystanders". There are those that valued their life enough to arm themselves, and those that do not value their life enough to arm themselves. Why should I risk my life (which I value quite highly) for someone who does not value their own life.

    As to the auxiliary policeman BS, I in no way consider my CHP to make me anything other than a citizen with a gun. I agree totally with your analysis of the purpose of a "sheepdog". Police and Military are the "sheepdogs" since they are armed not to protect us, but to force others to do the Government's bidding. I don't think that it was always that way, since I know a lot of older people who remember police that still believed in the "serve and protect", and had lived through WWII where our soldiers were actually protecting our country. However, I was born in the early '60's, and my experience is somewhat different. I grew up watching cops beat hippies and black people's heads in, and I have not lived through a war that was fought for anything other than to further the agenda of corporate America. I in no way identify with a "sheepdog". Lone wolf, maybe. But I am neither a sheep to be herded, nor a dog doing his master's bidding.

  5. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    G50AE,

    I will call your (well my) sheepdog, and raise you a badge:



    You know, that is kind of like anteing up with someone else's chips!
    Yeah, but I had to get you back for posting that picture of a "No Public Breastfeeding" sign on another thread.

  6. #15
    I always figured that, in this discussion, I must be a billy goat. I use my weapon to defend myself and my family. While each case would be evaluated on its own merits for the most part everyone else is on their own.

  7. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by SC Tiger View Post
    I always figured that, in this discussion, I must be a billy goat. I use my weapon to defend myself and my family. While each case would be evaluated on its own merits for the most part everyone else is on their own.
    An I always figured that the whole concept of "sheepdogs" and CCW Badges were both realy darn silly.

  8. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Toronto, Ohio
    Posts
    766
    Blog Entries
    10
    G50AE, Punch, Treo, Lakeland

    Sheep Dogs do more than Conceal Carry, they are volunteer fireman, they serve our Country, they are those you see at Tea Parties, they are those that stop and help along the highway, they can help in an accident because they are prepared, they are not afraid to get involved.
    I attended The Ohio Valley (We The People) meeting a couple weeks ago, and the speaker said there are three groups of people, 1/3 are the sheep everything is fine, whatever happens we will go along with it, another 1/3 are those that agree with what the sheepdogs do, but they don’t want to do it or get involved, and they usually condemn the actions of those that will, the last 1/3 are the sheepdogs. During the Revolution guess what 1/3 decided we would free ourselves from the King?

    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat. Theodore Roosevelt (1858 - 1919)

    “The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don’t do anything about it.” — Albert Einstein

    “Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.” Ronald Reagan

    A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. — John Stuart Mills

    In the beginning, the patriot is a scarce man -- brave, hated, and scorned. But when his cause succeeds, the timid join him. For then, it costs nothing to be a patriot. -- Mark Twain
    “Every step we take towards making the State our Caretaker of our lives, by that much we move toward making the State our Master.” – Dwight D. Eisenhower

  9. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Colorado Rocky Mountain High
    Posts
    3,900
    And again, we're trying to aggrandize ourselves w/ titles. We’re trying to make ourselves somehow noble and protectors of ‘the people” and we’re not.

    Seriously, go log in at THR or Gunrightsmedia.org (the new home of THR.US) or TFL or DC.Com (DC.com may not be the best example because damn near everyone there thinks they are a sheep dog) and search the term. You will find that when ever it comes up the ninja come out of the woodwork in droves.

    The sheepdog myth is baaaaad JU JU it makes people think that carrying a gun makes them a hero-in-waiting; they do stupid things and make the rest of us look bad.

    No body minds if you want to join CERT or the VFD or even go be a Tea bagger but please don’t come crow to me about how “noble’ you are for doing it .

    And please don’t perpetuate the myth that a CHP comes w/ a bat cape and imputes some “duty to respond” to us, it doesn’t.

    And in closing
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  10. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Posts
    211
    Quote Originally Posted by Debray View Post
    G50AE, Punch, Treo, Lakeland

    Sheep Dogs do more than Conceal Carry, they are volunteer fireman, they serve our Country, they are those you see at Tea Parties, they are those that stop and help along the highway, they can help in an accident because they are prepared, they are not afraid to get involved.
    So do people who are not “sheep dogs”. Some of us do all of the above because we are decent human beings, not because we have delusions of grandeur.


    I attended The Ohio Valley (We The People) meeting a couple weeks ago, and the speaker said there are three groups of people, 1/3 are the sheep everything is fine, whatever happens we will go along with it, another 1/3 are those that agree with what the sheepdogs do, but they don’t want to do it or get involved, and they usually condemn the actions of those that will, the last 1/3 are the sheepdogs. During the Revolution guess what 1/3 decided we would free ourselves from the King?
    If your speaker thinks that he can group people into three simplistic groups, he is an idiot. However, to answer your question – none of the above. The sheep were happy, so they did not revolt. The second group were Tories and supported the King, and the third group (the so-called sheepdogs) were the Hessians and British troops enforcing the King’s law. The ones that freed themselves from the King were those that were simply p***ed-off with the whole lot and started shooting (usually at some of all of the above). They were fighting the King for their own reasons like any rebel force, not for some lofty BS as has been created for TV 250 years later.


    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat. Theodore Roosevelt (1858 - 1919)

    “The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don’t do anything about it.” — Albert Einstein

    “Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.” Ronald Reagan

    A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. — John Stuart Mills

    In the beginning, the patriot is a scarce man -- brave, hated, and scorned. But when his cause succeeds, the timid join him. For then, it costs nothing to be a patriot. -- Mark Twain
    If be more impressed if I cared about what any of the above bozos had to say (except maybe Teddy). But his quote is quite useless in this argument since in using it, you make the assumption that none of us who hold the “anti sheep dog” opinion know the difference between victory and defeat, or have never fought for anything or anyone in our lives. Many of us have (and even on behalf of someone else). We just don’t run around with a mask and cape living out some fantasy that is needed to fill some hole in our psyches.

    I have used my weapon to defend myself on four occasions. Thankfully, none required me pulling the trigger. In two of those actions, my own stupidity and poor judgment put me into the situation. Thankfully, everything worked out for the best and I have learned from them. In one other, I intervened on someone else’s behalf only to find out that they were the ones that instigated the situation, and the person that I thought was the perp was actually the victim fighting back. Thankfully, that worked out OK, too. But it could have gone VERY wrong. Having learned my lesson, I did not get involved in what was obviously to me a kidnapping and possible future Amber Alert. I took down the information and reported the incident to a Sheriff’s Deputy a couple blocks away. Yes, the young teenage girl was being stuffed into a car by force by an older man. It happened to be a father getting his autistic daughter to an appointment, and she tended to get violent when she had to do something she did not want to do. The Deputy was quite aware of the situation.

    I have thought many times how I would feel if something happened to one of my loved ones because someone did not act to help them. I have also thought how I would feel if something happened to them because someone tried to be a hero and got them needlessly hurt or killed. I could, perhaps, forgive the former since my family are all adults and should be taking care of themselves (they have had to hear me preach about it enough). There would be NO forgiveness for the latter.

  11. #20
    You don't have to abstract the analogy into a realm where it doesn't apply or make sense to know where you stand.

    I agree with many of the "sheepdog" principles. I continually rehash one for-instance. If someone comes into my school and starts shooting up the place, I am going to respond. That's where I feel like a lot of people would go beyond self defense is with a mass murderer.

    I suppose in some respect it would be self defense, because I couldn't live with my conscience knowing that I didn't do what I could to save a life. It's probably cooler to be nihilistic though.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Quantcast