Open Carry "Harassment" in Philly - be smart! - Page 2
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Thread: Open Carry "Harassment" in Philly - be smart!

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Eastern Colorado
    Posts
    269
    I carry a voice recorder all the time now. Not just because I OC either. It's a smart thing to do. An officers badge doesn't provide magical powers of truth telling. Officers can lie and they do.

    As far as the guy in Philly. Yes I think he could have handled it a little better. It's easy to armchair quarterback a situation though. Judging by the audio (yes I listened to all of it) if I had to pick a side that handled the whole situation wrong it's the officers.
    I don't care if the guy was being smart by carrying a recorder of if he was actually out to try and get stopped. What he was doing was legal. There was no reason for his life to be threatened. No reason to be stripped of his possessions. No reason to be stripped of his liberty.

    Some of you have no problem giving up essential liberty for a little security. I guess ol' Ben had no idea what he was talking about.
    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

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  3. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Lakeland Man View Post
    All that being said, I choose to CC. Here in FL, I'm not given an OC option...yet. But when it does happen, I will most likely CC simply because that is my personal choice. I don't feel that I'm "sticking my head in the sand". This is just they way I choose to carry. At least I AM carrying!
    I CC as well. I didn't say that CC'ers have a "sticking their head in the sand" mentality.

    I was replying to another post.

    The analogy was, 12 people in starbucks OC'ing do you feel uncomfortable, what if they were CC'ing you don't feel uncomfortable which do you prefer CC that's dumb.

    Just read the post and follow along

  4. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Wearing it open removes the element of surprise and can invite trouble in bad neighborhoods. In PP training we teach "SSS." Stealth, Surprise, Skill. I've seen stealth attacks by wolfpacks take the gun during a beatdown. 15 kids hiding along the street and then coming from every direction. Your gun is a highly coveted item to them. While OC is OK in most areas, it's questionable in bad neighborhoods. The first rule to a gunfight? Don't be there. Avoidance and deterrence.

    Besides, I have enough to carry around with adding a tape recorder. Can't even find my keys. Gonna need a "man bag."
    I don't agree that CC'ing gives you the element of surprise. Surprise is an offensive tactic, not defensive.
    That being said, I CC just the same.

    Self defense starts with avoidance, I don't go into bad neighborhoods, but if I did, I think I would feel like a target if I was carrying a gun around openly.

    There again, anecdotally, if you have seen someone jumped by 15 kids for their gun... I have also seen nasty situation defused by the mere sight of a gun.

  5. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackieChan View Post
    Seriously, favoring CC over OC is like sticking your head in the sand.
    Maybe I read this wrong, but it seems clear to me.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by Lakeland Man View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackieChan
    Seriously, favoring CC over OC is like sticking your head in the sand.
    Maybe I read this wrong, but it seems clear to me.
    I think what BlackieChan was saying was that when people prefer that other people CC, because they are frightened by the sight of a gun, they are sticking their heads in the sand.

    For example, look at this comment made by the Tulsa Chief of Police about their open carry bill:

    Tulsa police chief against open-carry | Tulsa World

    But Jordan said his main concern as police chief is for the safety of his officers on the streets.

    "It would make the job much more difficult," he said. "It puts an officer in a position of having to ask himself, 'Does this guy have an open-carry permit, or does he just have a gun in his belt because I'm stopping him?' "
    What the police chief fails to acknowledge is that a law allowing open carry changes absolutely nothing. In fact, it would make his officers on the street safer because they could look at a person and say, "He has a gun" if open carrying. If concealed carrying, the officer looks at a person and asks, "I wonder if he has a gun."

    I think this is a total example of the "head in the sand" mentality some people have. To the Chief of Police of Tulsa, clearly, out of sight is out of mind.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  7. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    I think what BlackieChan was saying was that when people prefer that other people CC, because they are frightened by the sight of a gun, they are sticking their heads in the sand.

    For example, look at this comment made by the Tulsa Chief of Police about their open carry bill:

    Tulsa police chief against open-carry | Tulsa World


    What the police chief fails to acknowledge is that a law allowing open carry changes absolutely nothing. In fact, it would make his officers on the street safer because they could look at a person and say, "He has a gun" if open carrying. If concealed carrying, the officer looks at a person and asks, "I wonder if he has a gun."

    I think this is a total example of the "head in the sand" mentality some people have. To the Chief of Police of Tulsa, clearly, out of sight is out of mind.
    Thank you, that is exactly what I meant.

  8. #17
    OK, I can support that. I choose CC, but If someone wants to OC and the law allows, I say go for it.

    Sorry I misunderstood.

  9. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Lakeland Man View Post
    OK, I can support that. I choose CC, but If someone wants to OC and the law allows, I say go for it.

    Sorry I misunderstood.
    No, not a problem. I'm not a genius of a writer so I don't count it against someone if they don't understand what I'm trying to convey.

  10. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington
    Posts
    475
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Wearing it open removes the element of surprise and can invite trouble in bad neighborhoods. In PP training we teach "SSS." Stealth, Surprise, Skill. I've seen stealth attacks by wolfpacks take the gun during a beatdown. 15 kids hiding along the street and then coming from every direction. Your gun is a highly coveted item to them. While OC is OK in most areas, it's questionable in bad neighborhoods. The first rule to a gunfight? Don't be there. Avoidance and deterrence.

    Besides, I have enough to carry around with adding a tape recorder. Can't even find my keys. Gonna need a "man bag."
    Help me to understand this element of surprise you are talking about. For if you are CCing you are not going to pull your gun till you have been surprised/alerted by the attacker. So your element of surprise is not very effective unless you are able to get the attackers attention pointed elsewhere while you draw your gun to fire on the attacker.

  11. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kingdom City, Missouri
    Posts
    20
    IMO, to each his/her own. Now with that being said, why is it that everytime I read somebody tryin to tell the world that they hold their RKBA rights as sacred and should not be infringed in any way as the Founders intended, and then in their next breath they insist upon infringing upon my right to open carry. Do those that do this think that in some way that they have the moral high ground or something ???? Do I dislike Concealed carry ??? Hell No, no way BUT, at the same time I will not bow to those that wish to make me cover-up my right and be very very quite about it in public. Who are they to say that I am stupid and looking to make loud and in your face statement ????? As a human being having been endowed by my Creator with the right to self defense and my right to use whatever tool I choose to do so, I find it highly offensive that some choose to badmouth those of us that open carry and carry on a rant atop their soapbox about the "TACTICAL SUPERIORTY" of conceal carry because of some PROPAGANDA BS spewed by the Conceal Carry Instructors who wouldn't get paid to so if more people understood they have a RIGHT to open carry. At least in most states it is. Others seem PC and to not want to rock the boat in areas that seem to me to be more suburban or just liberal. Frankly, I'm fed up to here with self-righteous city folks tellin folks like me out here in the country, in a State that is very open carry friendly, that we SHOULDN'T tote a gun in plain sight even though we have every right to do so. I don't bad mouth you or bring up the FACT that our Founding Fathers thought that concealing a gun was wrong and not to be done by anyone who has nothing to hide.
    Missouri has legal open carry, and it requires no training, no background check, and no permit. Doesn't cost a person one red dime if he/she wants to open carry here. However, our State Constitution spells out a specific exception for concealed firearms.

    Missouri State Constitution, Article 1, Section 23
    Section 23. That the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or when lawfully summoned in aid of the civil power, shall not be questioned; but this shall not justify the wearing of concealed weapons.


    In other words, Missouri views the carrying of concealed firearms as a privilege, NOT a right, and they regulate that privilege with training requirements, background checks, and a $100 permit processing fee to be paid to the County Sheriff's Dept. And of course CCW Instructors that are paid very well to teach those CCW Classes.

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