Should CCW permits be restricted to citizens? - Page 11
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Thread: Should CCW permits be restricted to citizens?

  1. Quote Originally Posted by darknetone View Post
    The constitution give us the right to bear arms. The given in the constitution do not extend to non citizens. This is not rocket science and it really is that simple.
    Really? The US Supreme Court has a differing opinion:

    WONG WING v. U S, 163 U.S. 228 (1896)

    And in the case of Yick Wo v. Hopkins, 118 U.S. 369 , 6 Sup. Ct. 1064, it was said: 'The fourteenth amendment to the constitution is not confined to the protection of citizens. It says: 'Nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty or property without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the law.' These provisious are universal in their application to all persons within the territorial jurisdiction, without regard to any differences of race, of color, or nationality; and the equal protection of the laws is a pledge of the protection of equal laws.' Applying this reasoning to the fifth and sixth amendments, it must be concluded that all persons within the territory of the United States are entitled to the protection guarantied by those amendments, and that even aliens shall not be held to answer for a capital or other infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.
    Now, you add to that that the US Supreme Court in McDonald v. Chicago held that the 2nd amendment applies to the states as well as the Federal government by incorporation via the same 14th amendment in the case above, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the 2nd amendment applies equally to aliens as well as to citizens since the 2nd amendment says:
    "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." The 2nd amendment does NOT say the right of the Citizens. It says the right of the People. Resident aliens are people too.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

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  3. Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Really? The US Supreme Court has a differing opinion:

    WONG WING v. U S, 163 U.S. 228 (1896)



    Now, you add to that that the US Supreme Court in McDonald v. Chicago held that the 2nd amendment applies to the states as well as the Federal government by incorporation via the same 14th amendment in the case above, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the 2nd amendment applies equally to aliens as well as to citizens since the 2nd amendment says:
    "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." The 2nd amendment does NOT say the right of the Citizens. It says the right of the People. Resident aliens are people too.
    The Preamble of the U.S. Constitution begins "We the People of the United States...". I believe the phrase "the right of the People..." in the 2nd amendment refers to the people of the United States so I would think it really only applies to citizens. The 14th amendment refers to the state depriving any person of life, liberty or property without due process. Seems to me to be different IMO

  4. Quote Originally Posted by OpenCarryYes View Post
    The Preamble of the U.S. Constitution begins "We the People of the United States...". I believe the phrase "the right of the People..." in the 2nd amendment refers to the people of the United States so I would think it really only applies to citizens. The 14th amendment refers to the state depriving any person of life, liberty or property without due process. Seems to me to be different IMO
    "We, the People of the United States" was written by men, especially Gouverneur Morris, who were born as subjects of the British government, who overthrew their government by force, and declared themselves to be "citizens" of the "United States of America".

    Alexander Hamilton was born in Charlestown, the capital of the island of Nevis, in the Leeward Islands of the Caribbean; Nevis was then one of the British West Indies.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  5. @BC1.This is what you wrote."I personally believe that the second amendment should apply only to American citizens".
    Do you realise that we have thousands of "GREEN CARD HOLDERS"in every branch of our military?
    Please,do tell...what should we do with these brave men and women who are fighting for "OUR" country?

    Should they bear arms to fight and protect our country,but cant bear arms to protect themself and their families when they return to our shores?

    Well i think we should change the laws and have only citizen of this country go to war and fight for this country.

  6. We the people

    So they were citizens then..

  7. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpenCarryYes View Post
    So they were citizens then..
    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
    SO who's created equal all men or just citizens?

    "No Freeman Shall Ever Be Debarred the Use of Arms"
    What is a free man?

    IMO there shouldn't even be permits I guess that tells you where I stand on citizen V non citizen carry
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  8. I guess that since we are a nation of laws with boundaries we use that in our consideration. If we dont that just what is an illegal alien? Where does the line get drawn? I agree that God given rights are inalienable but which ones are they. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Is the 2nd amendment a God given right or govt given right?

  9. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpenCarryYes View Post
    I guess that since we are a nation of laws with boundaries we use that in our consideration. If we dont that just what is an illegal alien? Where does the line get drawn? I agree that God given rights are inalienable but which ones are they. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Is the 2nd amendment a God given right or govt given right?
    I'm saying that the human right to self defense exists without regard to law, or borders, or country of origin, or location.

    I have been endowed by my craetor w/ the right to life. Incumbent upon that right is the right to defend that life by any means neccessary or available
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  10. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    SO who's created equal all men or just citizens?



    What is a free man?

    IMO there shouldn't even be permits I guess that tells you where I stand on citizen V non citizen carry
    Freeman is all male citizens who were not indentured servants, prisoners, or slaves. But mostly slaves were referrred to as not being Freemen. Back then it amounted to the male voting class.

  11. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    if the right to bear arms is given by God, then doesn't everyone in the world have that same right? What, god don't like Canadians?
    I'm sure he does, problem is God didn't give men rights, he gave them life. Men gave Men rights. God has nothing to do with it.

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