Should CCW permits be restricted to citizens? - Page 13
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Thread: Should CCW permits be restricted to citizens?

  1. #121
    Join Date
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    Exclamation The Bill of Rights are UNIVERSAL!

    The Rights listed in our Constitution are Natural Rights; thus the description of them as self-evident and inalienable. The people of England DO have the right to keep and bear arms. Just because their government oppresses this right doesn't mean that it does not exist.

    We, as Americans, should recognize Constitutional rights for ALL people, regardless of what their own country says. That is the way to export the American Dream.
    "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." Thomas Jefferson

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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Boomboy007 View Post
    We, as Americans, should recognize Constitutional rights for ALL people, regardless of what their own country says. That is the way to export the American Dream.
    I thought that this was the way to export the American Dream:

    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    I thought that this was the way to export the American Dream:

    Only if they are distributing copies of Locke, Jefferson, Madison, Hamilton and Jay. Possibly Voltaire but I always thought his name sounded like an evil emporor, he had some nice ideas though.
    "Get this through your head! We're not fighting to have everybody think the way we do, we're fighting so that people can think whatever they want! Even if they don't agree with us!"--Stalker, GI JOE #39

  5. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomboy007 View Post
    The Rights listed in our Constitution are Natural Rights; thus the description of them as self-evident and inalienable. The people of England DO have the right to keep and bear arms. Just because their government oppresses this right doesn't mean that it does not exist.

    We, as Americans, should recognize Constitutional rights for ALL people, regardless of what their own country says. That is the way to export the American Dream.
    That is just our interpretation. Other peoples and other countries have their own interpretations. Who do we as one of the newest countries in the world think that we are to force our beliefs and our interpretations on the rest of the world. We do not have the right to usurp the rights of others or to force what we see as our rights on others. The Constitution of the United States of America is by and for the people of the United States of America. Be very careful of what you ask for when it concerns rights. I can almost guarantee you that if there is ever a constitution that pertained to all of the people in the world that the right to keep and bear arms will not be a part of it. Good thing is that if people in other countries no longer want to be repressed by their repressive governments, they can leave, come here legally and then be afforded the same rights and protection of the Constitution of the United States of America as we have.

    The people of England DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS. And the reason that they do not is because they live in England and are subject to the Laws and Rules of England. I will guarantee you that if someone in England gets caught keeping and bearing arms, the Constitution of The United States of America will not protect them even if they are an American citizen. For the most part the Constitution of The United States of America only protects people who are under the direct jurisdiction of or in the United States of America. Don't believe me, go to Canada, Mexico or even England and get caught keeping and bearing arms. Let me know how that works out for you.

  6. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Really? The US Supreme Court has a differing opinion:

    WONG WING v. U S, 163 U.S. 228 (1896)



    Now, you add to that that the US Supreme Court in McDonald v. Chicago held that the 2nd amendment applies to the states as well as the Federal government by incorporation via the same 14th amendment in the case above, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the 2nd amendment applies equally to aliens as well as to citizens since the 2nd amendment says:
    "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." The 2nd amendment does NOT say the right of the Citizens. It says the right of the People. Resident aliens are people too.
    But nowhere does it say that "illegal aliens" have these same protections.

  7. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by bufordtpisser View Post
    But nowhere does it say that "illegal aliens" have these same protections.
    Legal Aliens are not Illegal Aliens.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by bufordtpisser View Post
    But nowhere does it say that "illegal aliens" have these same protections.
    True. The opinion in WONG WING v. U S, 163 U.S. 228 (1896) does not say that illegal aliens have these same protections. However, the opinion in Plyler v. Doe (No. 80-1538) does:
    Plyler v. Doe

    The Fourteenth Amendment provides that

    [n]o State shall . . . deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    (Emphasis added.) Appellants argue at the outset that undocumented aliens, because of their immigration status, are not "persons within the jurisdiction" of the State of Texas, and that they therefore have no right to the equal protection of Texas law. We reject this argument. Whatever his status under the immigration laws, an alien is surely a "person" in any ordinary sense of that term. Aliens, even aliens whose presence in this country is unlawful, have long been recognized as "persons" guaranteed due process of law by the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments. Shaughnessv v. Mezei, 345 U.S. 206, 212 (1953); Wong Wing v. United States, 163 U.S. 228, 238 (1896); Yick Wo v. Hopkins, 118 U.S. 356, 369 (1886). Indeed, we have clearly held that the Fifth Amendment protects aliens whose presence in this country is unlawful from invidious discrimination by the Federal Government. Mathews v. Diaz, 426 U.S. 67, 77 (1976). [n9] [p211]
    Now, at the time of Pyler v. Doe, the 2nd Amendment had not yet been incorporated to the states via the 14th Amendment. McDonald v. Chicago changed that. In McDonal V. Chicago the Supreme Court ruled that the 2nd Amendment was included in the protections of the 14th Amendment at the state level.


    Quote Originally Posted by jg1967 View Post
    Legal Aliens are not Illegal Aliens.
    Absolutely true. Unfortunately there are people, some on this forum, who are unable to grasp this concept.

    Don't get me wrong... I may not personally agree with illegal aliens being afforded equal rights with those in this country who are here legally. I don't like paying for illegal aliens to be on welfare or receive public education or public health care. Unfortunately the US Supreme Court disagrees with my personal feelings.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  9. #128
    YES!!! A citizen of the United States of America has the right if they so choose to have a Conceal Weapons Permit. Illegal aliens, no way in hell, legal aliens, not really as you cannot always get a full background check from some countries, i.e., Cuba, Russia, Iraq, etc.

    Hell there are some citizens I do not want to see with a weapon let alone a CCW and yet our fabulous background checks misses people who have been in a mental institution. I do firmly believe every citizen applying for a weapon to purchase should have to prove some type of training for a hand gun, i.e., CCW, hunting classes, DD Form 214 military papers one receives upon discharge, all these show they are citizens of the USA.
    The Second Amendment is not about Hunting!!
    When the Government is afraid of of it's People, This LIBERTY
    When the People are afraid of the government, That is TYRANNY

  10. Quote Originally Posted by SFC View Post
    YES!!! A citizen of the United States of America has the right if they so choose to have a Conceal Weapons Permit. Illegal aliens, no way in hell, legal aliens, not really as you cannot always get a full background check from some countries, i.e., Cuba, Russia, Iraq, etc.

    Hell there are some citizens I do not want to see with a weapon let alone a CCW and yet our fabulous background checks misses people who have been in a mental institution. I do firmly believe every citizen applying for a weapon to purchase should have to prove some type of training for a hand gun, i.e., CCW, hunting classes, DD Form 214 military papers one receives upon discharge, all these show they are citizens of the USA.
    So much for your oath to support and defend the Constitution of the US, eh? I don't see permits, background checks and/or training mentioned in the 2nd Amendment. Maybe I am reading an outdated version?
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  11. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by SFC View Post
    YES!!! A citizen of the United States of America has the right if they so choose to have a Conceal Weapons Permit. Illegal aliens, no way in hell, legal aliens, not really as you cannot always get a full background check from some countries, i.e., Cuba, Russia, Iraq, etc.

    Hell there are some citizens I do not want to see with a weapon let alone a CCW and yet our fabulous background checks misses people who have been in a mental institution. I do firmly believe every citizen applying for a weapon to purchase should have to prove some type of training for a hand gun, i.e., CCW, hunting classes, DD Form 214 military papers one receives upon discharge, all these show they are citizens of the USA.
    You need not worry about the background checks since they are US backgound only ... but as a legal alien you have been checked out more thoroughly than you have ever been in your entire life before you came in.

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