Should CCW permits be restricted to citizens? - Page 8
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Thread: Should CCW permits be restricted to citizens?

  1. #71
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    South Carolina, United States
    Posts
    23
    Yes

  2.   
  3. #72
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Arapahoe County CO
    Posts
    152
    No. I consider the option of armed self-defense to be a human right.

  4. It comes down to the question “Who are the PEOPLE referred to in the 2A, whose right to keep and bear arms is not to be infringed?” Is it “citizens of the United States”? Does “people” have a broader meaning, to include those who are not citizens, but are still part of our “national community”?

    Justice Scalia found an answer in a recent Supreme Court decision, “United States v. Verdugo-Uquidez, 494 U. S. 259, 265 (1990)”, and refered to it in writing the opinion of the Supreme Court in HELLER :

    “ ‘[T]he people’ seems to have been a term of art employed in select parts of the Constitution. . . . [Its uses] sugges[t] that ‘THE PEOPLE’ protected by the Fourth Amendment, and by the First and SECOND
    Amendments, and to whom rights and powers are reserved in the Ninth and Tenth Amendments, REFERS TO
    a class of PERSONS WHO ARE PART OF A NATIONAL COMMUNITY OR WHO HAVE OTHERWISE DEVELOPED SUFFICIENT CONNECTION WITH THIS COUNTRY TO BE CONSIDERED PART OF THAT COMMUNITY.” (Emphasis added)

    Since (lawful) resident aliens were considered to be enough a part of “the people” to be drafted (from the “un-organized militia”) into military service in this country, along with full-fledged citizens (when we had a draft, which may again be the case); I would conclude that they are properly included in “the people” covered by the BOR, including the 2A.

    Illegal aliens would have a much slimmer claim to any such right. Indeed, since their very presence on American soil can be said to be the continuing commission of a crime, the only Constitutional rights that would surely apply are those extended to persons accused of a crime. The case could be made for 2A. RKBA for “Illegals”, but that would be a very difficult swim against a very strong tide.
    Last edited by LonjgPurple; 04-14-2011 at 09:55 AM. Reason: typos

  5. Thumbs down No: open it to lawful residence, workers, and some tourist.

    No. I think all lawful persons have a right to carry protective materials. I wish I could get a permit to carry in Canada, but am denied. Perhaps if we opened up to lawful foreigners, their countries might open up to US cititizens.

    I work with some people that are here legally and are becoming citizens. If they pass the background check, give them a permit. For a tourist, perhaps a more exhaustive background check is needed. Maybe they need to pass a written test to show they understand the law where they will be travelling. Because I do not wish to lose my permit, I am extra careful to understand the law in other states that I travel within.

  6. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    if the right to bear arms is given by God, then doesn't everyone in the world have that same right? What, god don't like Canadians?
    If God is the authority and everyone is included (as stated in quote), then which God (or scriptures) pertain? Everyone includes Christian, Hebrew, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Wiccan, Pagan, et al . Some of the resident deities actually state through scripture that no weapons are to be allowed.

    I'd stick to the 2d Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, and it does pertain to U.S. Citizens only.

    BTW weapon permits are not issued to aliens other countries.

  7. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by wjh2657 View Post
    If God is the authority and everyone is included (as stated in quote), then which God (or scriptures) pertain? Everyone includes Christian, Hebrew, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Wiccan, Pagan, et al . Some of the resident deities actually state through scripture that no weapons are to be allowed.

    I'd stick to the 2d Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, and it does pertain to U.S. Citizens only.

    BTW weapon permits are not issued to aliens other countries.
    As far as I know the constitution does apply to more than just citizens. If you read some of the early drafts of the second they often referred to the term "free man", not citizen. As for other countries how does that matter if they don't issue permits to citizens either? Besides who here has any actual knowledge of gun laws outside the US? Not trying to flame you here, just saying.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by wjh2657 View Post
    I'd stick to the 2d Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, and it does pertain to U.S. Citizens only.
    The US Supreme Court disagrees with you.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  9. #78
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Chattanooga TN
    Posts
    110
    Only God fearin' Mericans.

  10. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by wjh2657 View Post
    I'd stick to the 2d Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, and it does pertain to U.S. Citizens only.
    Tell you what, cite the law that mentions that the 2nd Amendment pertains to US Citizens only. Good luck finding it because it doesn't exist.

    If you're going to state something as fact then I suggest you have the means to back up your statement. I can state that the 2nd Amendment does not apply to just US Citizens because I have the means to prove what I'm saying, namely I'm not a US Citizen but I have a Concealed Handgun Permit and at least one firearm, and each of those items was obtained legally.

    It's one thing to offer a misguided opinion, but your quoted statement is nothing but a lie.

  11. Yes - if non-citizens want to protect themselves, tell them to go back where they came from and do so. Or, if they want to legally become a citizen, then they should be able to carry.

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