Should CCW permits be restricted to citizens? - Page 9
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Thread: Should CCW permits be restricted to citizens?

  1. #81
    "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America" (Preamble to Constitution)

    We the People are United States citizens, the people who are Americans as defined by U.S. Citizenship.


    "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." (Second Amendment)

    The People again are the citizenry of the United States.

    The amendment restricts the infringement by the Government, of the right to bear arms by the citizenry of the United States, but does not restrict firearm possession by other than citizens. States can and do issue permits and extend handgun possession to other than U.S. Citizens. This is not restricted by the 2nd A as it doesn't state that U.S. Citizens cannot do the same. This is why you have a gun and a permit.

    My point still stands, as personal opinion, that persons other than Citizens of the U.S. are not guaranteed the right to bear arms by the Constitution of the U.S. As many of us in this forum believe that the Constitution of the U.S. should be the source of our right to own and carry a weapon, that document does not guarantee a non-citizen the right to bear arms. However, it doesn't say that a state cannot grant that right. I think the question was whether we thought that non-citizens should be armed in the U.S. In light of current domestic threats and some very dangerous immigration patterns, I don't believe that non-citizens should be armed.

    I am always happy to see a foreigner (that is a proper term for a non-citizen) explaining to me what my rights are as a citizen. Seems to be a lot of that going around these days.

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  3. I agree with those who said there should be no permits or licenses. You could have them for aliens but I would prefer my state be free carry. Heck, I don't have a problem with illegal aliens carrying for self defense. Deport them and return their gun and ammo when they get back home. Any attempt to limit the liberty of other people will only feed the beast that will hunger for your own liberty.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by wjh2657 View Post
    "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America" (Preamble to Constitution)

    We the People are United States citizens, the people who are Americans as defined by U.S. Citizenship.
    You do understand the people who wrote that came to America while fleeing from the oppression of government from other countries before immigration and citizenship laws even existed here, right? They came here from other countries and declared themselves to be citizens.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  5. #84
    Should CCW permits be restricted to citizens?

    No - Anyone who wants a CCW (In South Carolina) attends classes pays for a background check and then waits XX days for a permit.

    If a non-citizen wants a CCW - I'm sure we would make it so they had to pay extra (you have to check with his/her country of origin to do a background check) and of course it would take longer. The other problem would be the required CCW class.

    So in the case of South Carolina CCW - Mr. non-citizen would spend money to attend the class (you can bet no one would be willing to accept another countries permit, class, or background check), be charged extra for the background check, and then have to wait longer (if ever) for the results to come back.

    See how the state wins - Mr. non-citizen forks over $75+ for the class (I'll assume he can rent a firearm for the class) $150 for the background check, pays for photos, waits at least 180 days for a background check (for non-citizens we would change the "shall issue" to "may issue"). If we get no response on th background check - cha-ching! If for some reason background check is bad - cha-ching again, except he has to go home. If for some reason the state does issue a CCW, he still needs a weapon and bullets - and you guessed it - cha-ching!

  6. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Written by the person who has English as a second language...



    Which part is spot on? That the right to bear arms is given by God and applicable to everyone in the world, or that "god don't like Canadians?"

    I vote that anyone [who] has done what is required to legally enter and legally remain in this country should be under the protection of the Constitution.
    I fixed your grammar for you.



    For those that disagree, may I remind you the only REAL citizens of this country are the Native Americans.


    European white man was the alien here at one time.
    There is nothing native about the American Indians--they are immigrants too, the first squatters if you will. And once here they didn't respect property boundaries either.

  7. No. Law abiding persons have an inalienable right to self-defense, ergo the tools of…

    I do not like that legislators have made is necessary for me to get a CCW to lawfully carry a pistol; it is still unlawful to carry certain edged tools or bludgeon tools. I do not mind so much that there are laws restricting convicts of certain crimes from carrying weapons; they have demonstrated their inability to control their behaviors. Minors might not have the mental capacity or legal standing to carry weapons.

    If we are going to live in a country where permits are required to carry defensive weapons, then all lawabiding persons of majority age ought to be permitted to carry them unless they have been adjudicated and a court orders them to not carry a weapon. There should be a lawful process to ensure aliens understand our laws and they do not meet any of our restriction criteria. It is going to have to be an affirmative process with aliens to prove they do not have a criminal record if they want to get a permit. The price must be reasonable too. Making a permit cost 20 times more than usual is unreasonable. Remember the weapons are just tools, a violent offender could be dangerous without tools or with improvised tools. If someone is arrested in the USA, it should be for an offense, not posession of a tool.

    A holstered pistol or knife in a pocket or sheath, are not dangerous to nearby humans. It is when a dangerous person or untrained person handles the tools that danger is present. I consider inebriated or high persons to be dangerous persons since their altered minds might not be capable of directing socially acceptable behavior.

    I am very angry when legislators make it so they and the wealthy have special priviledges. The wealthy can afford to rent a body guard. Some elected officials can carry into locations prohibited to nonofficials. Hipocracy is Rosie O'Donnell saying no one should own hand guns and then hiring her own body guards. Hipocracy is the federal government making a blanket law that nobody can take weapons into federal buildings and sometimes onto federal property, except their specially approved list of persons. The government does not provide lock boxes for us to stow our weapons upon entry…they fear few persons, so disarm or prohibit many.

    I carry and train because of a few persons; I am very nice to many and tolerate much antisocial and strange behaviors. Most tourists and aliens are nice persons. As an example, there are a few persons visiting our country that think it is alright to murder family members that violate some religious law or bring disgrace upon the family. We have laws against such murders. I would hate to have someone come after me because I looked at some family member "the wrong way" and the aggressor did not know that is not a capital offense in the USA.

  8. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by wjh2657;197593[I
    We the People[/I] are United States citizens, the people who are Americans as defined by U.S. Citizenship.


    "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." (Second Amendment)

    The People again are the citizenry of the United States.
    When someone talks out of their backside, all that is heard is a fart.

    Like I said you are unable to cite what was requested, instead you just ramble off on some misguided interpretation of what you think. You're entitled to think what you want, but don't quote it as the law.

    If you bother to read what had been said in this thread before jumping in with your opinion you'll see I already stated how the Constitution applies, either in full or not at all, to everyone with the legal right to reside in the US. I have the 'benefit' of the 16th Amendment, so I also have the benefit of the 2nd. I'll become a citizen of this country when I want to, not when you or anyone else tells me

  9. Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    I'll become a citizen of this country when I want to, not when you or anyone else tells me
    The way things are going right now, I'm not so sure this would be the best time to want to anyway...
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  10. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT
    The way things are going right now, I'm not so sure this would be the best time to want to anyway...

    Yesterday was actually the 10th anniversary of my moving to the US. My current green card expires in 3 years and the cost of renewing that is similar to the cost of applying for citizenship, so my actual thinking is that I'll do that sometime in the next 2 years. Hopefully I'll be able to pass the English language test in the interview, which reminds me of the woman who heard me spek and asked me where I was from. After explaining I was from a large city on the north west coast of England she proceeded to compliment me on how well I spoke English considering I was a foreigner .. unfortunately she was serious.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    Hopefully I'll be able to pass the English language test in the interview, which reminds me of the woman who heard me speak and asked me where I was from. After explaining I was from a large city on the north west coast of England she proceeded to compliment me on how well I spoke English considering I was a foreigner .. unfortunately she was serious.
    You are going to have to give up the English language, and learn American. From some of the assignments I have read from 8th graders, including my own stepdaughter's, they don't teach English in elementary school any longer.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

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