Pistol permit denied, would appreciate advice
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Thread: Pistol permit denied, would appreciate advice

  1. Pistol permit denied, would appreciate advice

    Hello fellow posters,

    I have just made an account on this website after reading a few good threads. I currently have a dilema and would appreciate some imput from people in a similar situation or anyone who understands New York state's permit issuing logic =/

    I applied for my pistol permit a week after my 21st birthday (21 being the legal age in ny) I went through the extremely lengthy process of filling out page after page of information, aswell as securing 4 character references which all had to be notarized. I had passport sized photos taken to insert into the application. Paid $110 for a background check and finger printing , $15 for a filing fee, $5 dollars for a judges fee and another $15 for the actual pistol permit course which is mandatory. All said and done i paid $145 to the state in hopes of getting my application accepted.

    Allow me to explain what i believe is the reason for denial.

    When i was 15 years old i had purchased ingredients online to make fireworks. Not knowing this was illegal at the time i was charged with a felony. The case was immediatly dismissed and did not suffer any consequences such as probation or anything of that sort.

    That being said I am curious as to why i was not issued a license. Prior to that arrest i had nothing on my record, i still do not to this day. I do not smoke or drink, which i realize is not relevant to the discussion. But i would consider myself a responsible person that made a mistake when I was a teenager, the charges were even dismissed!

    I am currently college studying criminal justice but I am beginning to question whether I should stick with it or not. I mean how am I expected to be hired if I cannot even legally carry a pistol? Are my dismissed charges years ago enough to deny me my 2nd ammendment rights?

    EDIT: Additional info to add: I live in upstate new york and the office I am applying through is the Washington Country Sherffs office. On the letter of denial it informed me that i was denied due to penal law 400.00. I researched the law and it has multiple reasons for denial, the only one which would remotely apply to my case is section C., which states, " who has not been convicted anywhere of a felony or a serious offense" Since my case was dropped and the definition of conviction means to be found guilty, this does not apply to me.

    I would appreciate any feedback anyone has to offer. Thanks

    Update: Made a call to the issuing judge, for a lack of better words he was an ass. He was rude and didn't seem interested in answering any of my questions and told me to speak with the under sheriff. Made a call to him, he wasn't much better. I am in the process of hiring an attorney because i'm tired of playing the state's childish games. If they want to act like idiots and give me the run around i'll take them to court.

  3. #2
    As you well noted, this situation will dog you for decades if you ignore it, and no doubt affect your desired career as well as credit checks, loans, future marriage prospects, employment, military service, etc. A never ending list.

    I suggest you hire a good "criminal justice defense attorney" and have him get your record expunged. rather than just sealed. Hiring someone of upper caliber will be much more expedient (but expensive) to your situation but he will probably get it done faster since he should know how, and shouldn't goof up something adding billable time and possibly make your situation worse.

    This is sort of like hiring a lawyer to defend your $50 speeding ticket. In the long run simply paying the ticket could cost you thousands later. (you get a couple more and then you go to insurance hell for 3 years= like I did)


  4. It does look like hiring an attorney is the best option. The thing is money is tight, especially being a college student. But like you said its better to deal with it now than have it haunt me for the rest of my life =/ Thanks for the advice

  5. #4
    I agree that you should seek out a lawyer. At the very least, the lawyer will be able to obtain as to the reason you were denied. Sounds like you are speculating that the reason was because of the fireworks issue when you were 15. Unfortunately, just because it was dismissed, doesn't mean it does not show up when your name is polled.

    If in fact that was the reason, you need to get it sealed and expunged. It probably will cost a bit of money, however, if your desire is to go into law enforcement, ( which I think it is as you are in the criminal justice program ), the money will be worth it.

    Search around and do not get the first attorney you talk to. Most attorneys do not charge for the first meeting. Make a list of questions to ask. Find as much as you can about each attorney you plan on seeing before you see them.

    Good luck and hope you will get this resolved soon. Please keep us up to date and let us know how it is going. If being a LEO is what you want, keep fighting. It will all be worth it in the long run.


  6. #5
    JSDinTexas Guest
    Bottom Line: case was dismissed - maintain official documentation of that for future - and I might attempt to get the entire event removed (expunged) from your record.
    Bottom Line: New York? They can deny on a whim and only second to Kommifornia for refusals - move to a state that respects the Constitution - you're welcomed in Texas anytime.

  7. #6
    Assuming your dismissal qualified, then your case record should have been automatically "sealed" pursuant to NY Criminal Procedure Law section 165.50, unless the DA or the Court gave you notice of intent not to seal it (very rare). Other than the sealing of records, there is no "expunge" provision for arrest records

    However, under section 160.50(1)(d)(iii) even sealed records are available to:

    "any state or local officer or agency with responsibility for the issuance of licenses to possess guns, when the accused has made application for such a license,"

    So you will have to deal with the issue whenever you apply for a pistol permit.

    First, you need to find out why the judge denied your permit.

    Did you disclose the arrest on your application? If not, then the failure to disclose itself is reason enough to deny your permit, even for a "shall issue" home defense permit.

    If you disclosed the arrest, then then judge has to have good cause not to issue you a permit for home defense (NY is a "shall issue" state for home defense unless "good cause" is shown for denying the permit.)

    Then maybe after 5 years or so you can go back and seek an expanded permit.

  8. #7
    If it's too hot in texas come to Washington, we'd love to have you as well.

  9. @ JsdinTexas & BlackieChan

    Ha thanks for the invite. I am starting to realize that some of the bad things people say about New York hold some truth.

    @ Nogods

    "Did you disclose the arrest on your application? If not, then the failure to disclose itself is reason enough to deny your permit, even for a "shall issue" home defense permit."

    Yes, I disclosed the arrest record and the disposition. I was also advised by the secretary at the pistol permit office to write a note explaining the charges against me so she would better understand the circumstances. All i got in return was an impersonal (paragraph) of a letter saying that i was denied. I think i will talk to the judge who initially dealt with my case, he has been helpful in the past when i requested the disposition of the case. If worst comes to worst i'll have to hire an attorney =(

    Again, all your feedback is greatly appreciated. I will keep this thread up to date for anyone curious of the outcome.

  10. #9
    JSDinTexas Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackieChan View Post
    If it's too hot in texas come to Washington, we'd love to have you as well.
    It's always too hot in Texas. But us native sons just love it. I put on a coat when the temp goes below 80 degrees.
    And it's always cold in the winter. One time some of the boys were sitting around a campfire, it was so cold the words froze as they came out of our mouths - we had to put them in a frying pan and thaw them out to hear what we were saying.

  11. #10
    I found this on USACarry..Concealed Permit:
    May Issue to Residents Only
    The determination whether to grant the license is completely within the discretion of the licensing officer. However, the licensing officer must state specifically and concisely in writing the reasons for a denial. A denial can only be overturned in court if the denial is shown to be arbitrary and capricious.
    This was taken from the NY State Permit info. link
    I hope this helps.

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