Why Do You Carry Concealed? - Page 76
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Thread: Why Do You Carry Concealed?

  1. I wish we could have a GZ/TM free day/discussion/life. The best lesson to learn is the one with the gun, or the one who knows how to use the gun most effectively is going to be the one that walks away from the fight. We need to make sure we are the one with the gun, and the one who knows how to use the gun the best so we are the one to walk away from whatever encounter caused us to use our gun.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  2.   
  3. Quote Originally Posted by jerkos View Post
    If you think G. Zimmerman was in the wrong I advise you not to carry. The poor lad, Trayvon , had two chances to take off. When Geo. was following him and after Trayvon sucker punched Geo.
    While I can see your point, G. Zimmerman also had opportunities to avoid the situation. He should have stayed in his car as directed by the dispatcher. He did not need to engage in the situation beyond alerting the police. The death of a 17 year old is tragic even if the kid is not a model citizen death is a terrible price to pay. That is my two cents worth, it may not be popular but it's how I feel about the situation.

  4. #753
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonb92 View Post
    While I can see your point, G. Zimmerman also had opportunities to avoid the situation. He should have stayed in his car as directed by the dispatcher. He did not need to engage in the situation beyond alerting the police. The death of a 17 year old is tragic even if the kid is not a model citizen death is a terrible price to pay. That is my two cents worth, it may not be popular but it's how I feel about the situation.
    Your 2 cents are worth 1 cent...as your opinion doesn't just not follow popular opinion...it's been proven wrong with evidence in a court of law. He was never told to stay in his car, where you made that up from isn't opinion, it's plain wrong. I advise you to go to the other 3+ threads that are dedicated to that topic to get clarification.
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Stengun View Post
    Howdy,

    Because there are people like George Zimmerman in this world.

    Paul
    Are saying GZ armed is to be feared? That maybe that was an un-needed shooting? If so, you scare me more than GZ does.

    Sent from my Ally using USA Carry mobile app

  6. #755
    Although I feel bad for the Martin family, Trayvon was in the wrong. Although George was told to leave him alone, I think trayvon attacked before he could retreat.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    Your 2 cents are worth 1 cent...as your opinion doesn't just not follow popular opinion...it's been proven wrong with evidence in a court of law. He was never told to stay in his car, where you made that up from isn't opinion, it's plain wrong. I advise you to go to the other 3+ threads that are dedicated to that topic to get clarification.
    So the exact quote from the dispatcher was as follows. Not exactly stay in your car, however it's not sure follow him either. Also in a court of law acquittal isn't the same as innocent. Zimmerman has to live with his decision everyday. I agree that by the time the two were engaged in the physical confrontation Zimmerman was justified in lethal force.

    911 dispatcher:

    Are you following him? [2:24]

    Zimmerman:

    Yeah. [2:25]

    911 dispatcher:

    OK.

    We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]

    Zimmerman:

    OK. [2:28]

  8. #757
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    Your 2 cents are worth 1 cent...as your opinion doesn't just not follow popular opinion...it's been proven wrong with evidence in a court of law. He was never told to stay in his car, where you made that up from isn't opinion, it's plain wrong. I advise you to go to the other 3+ threads that are dedicated to that topic to get clarification.
    Before you start insulting people get your own facts straight.

    Here's the 911 Call in its entirety, Source: http://s3.documentcloud.org/document...-zimmerman.pdf from an internet search:
    Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. …
    Zimmerman: Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a
    real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can
    give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or
    he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.
    Dispatcher: OK, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?
    Zimmerman: He looks black.
    Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?
    Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or
    sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring…
    Dispatcher: OK, he's just walking around the area…
    Zimmerman: …looking at all the houses.
    Dispatcher: OK…
    Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me.
    Dispatcher: OK—you said it's 1111 Retreat View? Or 111?
    Zimmerman: That's the clubhouse…
    Dispatcher: That's the clubhouse, do you know what the—he's near the
    clubhouse right now?
    Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me.
    Dispatcher: OK.
    Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.
    Z
    Dispatcher: How old would you say he looks?
    Zimmerman: He's got button on his shirt, late teens.
    Dispatcher: Late teens ok.Zimmerman: Somethings wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out, he's got
    something in his hands, I don't know what his deal is.
    Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything ok
    Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?
    Dispatcher: Yeah we've got someone on the way, just let me know if this guy does
    anything else.
    Zimmerman: Okay. These ******** they always get away. When you come to the
    clubhouse you come straight in and make a left. Actually you would go past the
    clubhouse.
    Dispatcher: So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse?
    Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left…uh
    you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. **** he's running.
    Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?
    Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.
    Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?
    Zimmerman: The back entrance…******* [unintelligible]
    Dispatcher: Are you following him?
    Zimmerman: Yeah
    Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.
    Zimmerman: Ok
    Dispatcher: Alright sir what is your name?
    Zimmerman: George…He ran.
    Dispatcher: Alright George what's your last name?
    Zimmerman: Zimmerman
    Dispatcher: And George what's the phone number you're calling from?Zimmerman: [redacted by Mother Jones]
    Dispatcher: Alright George we do have them on the way, do you want to meet with the
    officer when they get out there?
    Zimmerman: Alright, where you going to meet with them at?
    Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the
    club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they
    go past the mailboxes, that’s my truck...[unintelligible]
    Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?
    Zimmerman: I don’t know, it’s a cut through so I don’t know the address.
    Dispatcher: Okay do you live in the area?
    Zimmerman: Yeah, I...[unintelligible]
    Dispatcher: What’s your apartment number?
    Zimmerman: It’s a home it’s 1950, oh crap I don’t want to give it all out, I don’t
    know where this kid is.
    Dispatcher: Okay do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes
    then?
    Zimmerman: Yeah that’s fine.
    Dispatcher: Alright George, I’ll let them know to meet you around there okay?
    Zimmerman: Actually could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at?
    Dispatcher: Okay, yeah that’s no problem.
    Zimmerman: Should I give you my number or you got it?
    Dispatcher: Yeah I got it [redacted by Mother Jones]
    Zimmerman: Yeah you got it.
    Dispatcher: Okay no problem, I’ll let them know to call you when you’re in the area.
    Zimmerman: Thanks.
    Dispatcher: You’re welcome.
    He was found innocent. Fine. But I do agree he never should have pursued if this transcript is correct and the dispatcher said they didn't need him to follow/go after Trayvon. But I didn't follow the trial, so perhaps it came out in the Trial that Trayvon attacked before George could retreat as he was to wait on the officers at the mailboxes... At that point George would have had the perfect right to defend himself. However, looking at some of the court transcripts it looks like it was a pretty close call as to his guilt or innocence.

    I treat using my firearm like my martial arts training. Avoidance first.

  9. #758
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonb92 View Post
    So the exact quote from the dispatcher was as follows. Not exactly stay in your car, however it's not sure follow him either. Also in a court of law acquittal isn't the same as innocent. Zimmerman has to live with his decision everyday. I agree that by the time the two were engaged in the physical confrontation Zimmerman was justified in lethal force.

    Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left…uh
    you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. **** he's running.


    Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?

    Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.

    Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?

    Zimmerman: The back entrance…******* [unintelligible]

    911 dispatcher:

    Are you following him? [2:24]

    Zimmerman:

    Yeah. [2:25]

    911 dispatcher:

    OK.

    We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]


    Zimmerman:

    OK. [2:28]

    Dispatcher: Alright sir what is your name?

    Zimmerman: George…He ran.

    He was NEVER told to stay in his car. Your OP was absolutely false. I never stated he was told, "sure follow him", what I said was your opinion was wrong. Making up false arguments doesn't make your original argument true. We aren't talking about his innocence, or his acquittal, we are talking about the hard evidence in the case. The ONLY evidence about what happened in this call is that TM ran, GZ followed, dispatched asked GZ to stop, and he STOPPED by saying "OK... ... he ran". There is NO evidence to say otherwise, everything else is speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steon View Post
    Before you start insulting people get your own facts straight.

    Here's the 911 Call in its entirety, Source: http://s3.documentcloud.org/document...-zimmerman.pdf from an internet search:


    He was found innocent. Fine. But I do agree he never should have pursued if this transcript is correct and the dispatcher said they didn't need him to follow/go after Trayvon. But I didn't follow the trial, so perhaps it came out in the Trial that Trayvon attacked before George could retreat as he was to wait on the officers at the mailboxes... At that point George would have had the perfect right to defend himself. However, looking at some of the court transcripts it looks like it was a pretty close call as to his guilt or innocence.

    I treat using my firearm like my martial arts training. Avoidance first.
    Yes, its obvious you didn't follow the trial. Your speculation and chronological errors mean nothing. Anyone who looked at ALL, not some, of the transcripts and police reports know his self defense case had nothing to do with the "following one another", and was innocent on all accounts of self defense.

    Go to the other 3+ threads on this topic if you want more clarification.

    Edited: Clarification on terminology pointed out below by whodat.
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

  10. #759
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    He was NEVER told to stay in his car. Your OP was absolutely false. I never stated he was told to pursue, what I said was your opinion was wrong. Making up false arguments doesn't make your original argument true. We aren't talking about his innocence, or his acquittal, we are talking about the hard evidence in the case. The ONLY evidence about what happened in this call is that TM ran, GZ pursued, dispatched asked GZ to stop, and he STOPPED by saying "OK... ... he ran". There is NO evidence to say otherwise, everything else is speculation.
    First, there's a big difference between "we don't need you to do that" and "don't do that." There is actually just as big a difference between pursuing (never proved) and following. "Pursuing" implies and attempt to catch someone, whereas "following" (as in when the cops show up and ask where he went I can answer them) implies nothing of the sort.
    -
    One thing I would like to see is a continuing time line that contains all the phone calls, the gunshot etc. It just seems to me that TM became the stalker and attacker without ANY provocation except that a "creepy-azz-cracka" was following him.
    Chief

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    He was NEVER told to stay in his car. Your OP was absolutely false. I never stated he was told, "sure follow him", what I said was your opinion was wrong. Making up false arguments doesn't make your original argument true. We aren't talking about his innocence, or his acquittal, we are talking about the hard evidence in the case. The ONLY evidence about what happened in this call is that TM ran, GZ followed, dispatched asked GZ to stop, and he STOPPED by saying "OK... ... he ran". There is NO evidence to say otherwise, everything else is speculation.



    Yes, its obvious you didn't follow the trial. Your speculation and chronological errors mean nothing. Anyone who looked at ALL, not some, of the transcripts and police reports know his self defense case had nothing to do with the "following one another", and was innocent on all accounts of self defense.
    I was not stating that you said anything, I was admitting that I had my statement wrong and what the dispatcher did tell GZ. Additionally I did read the entire dispatch 911 transcript. I chose to post the short section that has the point I was correcting myself on and the entire snip-it is in chronological order. It's not worth arguing with you over so this is my last statement on the subject. I was admitting my own error, you however didn't read it all and jumped to some conclusions.

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