Can a Canadian be issued a "Concealed Carry Permit"? - Page 3
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Thread: Can a Canadian be issued a "Concealed Carry Permit"?

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    May I ask exactly HOW you became a citizen of the United States? If you are like me, you did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to become a citizen of the US. For most of us, US citizenship is EXACTLY like a toy in a box of Cracker Jacks. We just happened to be lucky enough to be born here, by chance. No different than opening the box of Cracker Jacks and pouring it out and out pops a US Citizenship certificate.

    And yet, somehow, we feel privileged to look down our noses at those people who had to jump through many more hoops than us to be in this country as legal residents, simply because they don't have a birth certificate from here? We would seek to deny them the basic human right to self protection because, even though they have put much more effort into being in this country legally than we have, they simply, by chance, were born somewhere else, just like we, by chance, were born here?

    I'm sorry, I just can't bring myself to be that selfish and arrogant.
    Navylt I am in complete agreement. I think most of us forget that are grandparents or great grandparents were not born in the good ol USA. They immigrated here to be free so that we as thier children could be born in this great nation. There are a lot of decent people in the world who would love to become american citizens. Unless you were a native american, we all at one time came from some other country. We need to give most immigrants a chance.

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  3. #22
    Widowerks Guest
    Fedral law states that a person who is in posesion of an 'Immigrant Visa and has resided in the United States for a period of at least 90 days may aquire a hunting style gun but seems to be somewhat vague on whether that would cover a ccw/chp - etc. That would be up to the discretion of the local Sherrifs Dept. How does a Sheriff do a federal - state CBI background on a non-citizen without incurring heavy search costs? A Sheriff 'can deny a permit for any reason with the right of apeal by the applicant in a distric court.
    A visitor (tourist) may NOT receive a concealed permit or carry a firearm under fedral law - U.S.BATF Code.
    Fedral Law superceeds state in re: to firearms control act.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Widowerks View Post
    Fedral law states that a person who is in posesion of an 'Immigrant Visa and has resided in the United States for a period of at least 90 days may aquire a hunting style gun but seems to be somewhat vague on whether that would cover a ccw/chp - etc. That would be up to the discretion of the local Sherrifs Dept. How does a Sheriff do a federal - state CBI background on a non-citizen without incurring heavy search costs? A Sheriff 'can deny a permit for any reason with the right of apeal by the applicant in a distric court.
    A visitor (tourist) may NOT receive a concealed permit or carry a firearm under fedral law - U.S.BATF Code.
    Fedral Law superceeds state in re: to firearms control act.
    You are greatly confused, Widowerks and have posted incorrect information. You might want to look and see what 18 USC 922 actually says. Especially sections (d)(5), (g)(5) and (y)(2).

    United States Code: Title 18,922. Unlawful acts | LII / Legal Information Institute

    In addition, in states such as Washington, the sheriff has no choice as to whether to issue a CPL or not. If the person qualifies under state law, they must issue the CPL.

    Under 18 USC 922 (d)(5) a dealer may sell ANY firearm to a person in the US with an Immigrant visa and 90 days consecutive residency in a state. Under 18 USC 922 (g)(5) a private party may sell ANY firearm to a person in the US with an Immigrant visa and 90 days consecutive residency in a state.

    The "hunting" exception in 18 USC 922 (y)(2) applies only to those persons legally present in the US with an other than immigrant type visa who are admitted to the US for hunting/sporting purposes or others (IE:tourists/students) who have hunting licenses.

    Also, we are still waiting for a catation that says you can't teach a concealed handgun course to a non-citizen.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Parsons, TN
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    272
    Thanks NavyLT for clarifing that. I knew there were several things wrong but wasn't were I could look it all up. As I said earlier, in TN a Lawful Permanent Resident can get a Handgun Carry Permit...not sure why they would issue them to them if they couldn't buy a handgun....
    “Because when seconds count, the police are only minutes away”

    Posting in …….
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    Tennessee Gun Owners
    also check
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    Tennessee Laws at: Michie’s Legal Resources

  6. #25
    Widowerks Guest
    To RJT CCW
    When I took the Bit I was required to sign a statement to the effect that I could by law own a firearm and further state that I was a U.S. citizen. As per my (moments ago) conversation with our local Sheriffs office I was informed that to their knowledge a concealed permit has never been issuse to a person who was not a citizen OR (as per fed regs) was in the U.S. with a valid visa and could prove residency for at the minimum of 90 days - furthermore the background check would take a VERY long time as international law would be involved as well as privacy laws of foriegn nations.
    As an Instructor we have right to NOT offer or provide for anyone we choose not to train. Training non-citizens is a grey area. I am currently waiting a responce from NRA HQ on your question and will post it when I get their view. It is possible that my TC was using his own discernment by requireing citizenship or the proof of legal residency which is required for a Co. resident to apply for a concealed permit. I personally have reservations about the direction this thread is taking and feel that we have lost the point somewhere along the way as to the orig. question - can a tourist get a concealed firearms permit - NO!
    Regards:

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Widowerks View Post
    the orig. question - can a tourist get a concealed firearms permit - NO!
    Regards:
    The answer is Yes, in Washington. Please try to refrain from making generalized statements which are erroneous outside your limited scope of knowledge.

    They first apply for an alien firearms license IAW RCW 9.41.173, and then may apply for a CPL IAW RCW 9.41.070.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Parsons, TN
    Posts
    272
    Well even though I 100% agree a non-citizen can get a carry permit in several states....I think in most, if not all, it is only if they are a lawful permanent resident...not if they are only going to be here temporarly as a tourist.
    “Because when seconds count, the police are only minutes away”

    Posting in …….
    OpenCarry.org
    USA Carry
    Glock Talk
    Tennessee Gun Owners
    also check
    Handgunlaw.us
    Tennessee Laws at: Michie’s Legal Resources

  9. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by G50AE View Post
    Take a civics class, there is no way to be a temporary citizen.
    Resident Aliens are considered temp citizens. They are legally here and are issued SS#'s. Here in VA there are allowed to apply for a VA CHP.

  10. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    May I ask exactly HOW you became a citizen of the United States? If you are like me, you did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to become a citizen of the US. For most of us, US citizenship is EXACTLY like a toy in a box of Cracker Jacks. We just happened to be lucky enough to be born here, by chance. No different than opening the box of Cracker Jacks and pouring it out and out pops a US Citizenship certificate.

    And yet, somehow, we feel privileged to look down our noses at those people who had to jump through many more hoops than us to be in this country as legal residents, simply because they don't have a birth certificate from here? We would seek to deny them the basic human right to self protection because, even though they have put much more effort into being in this country legally than we have, they simply, by chance, were born somewhere else, just like we, by chance, were born here?

    I'm sorry, I just can't bring myself to be that selfish and arrogant.
    I became a US citizen by birth (I think it's what's often referred to as a birthright, oddly enough!). My citizenship is more than that though. I was subject to the military draft during VietNam, as an example, and enlisted in the US Air Force as the fulfillment of that obligation. I have paid income tax since I was 16, and I've been subject to the laws of this country in many other ways since. I take voting as an obligation, and do so at every election, though many others fail to exercise this right, just like they don't exercise their 2nd amendment rights. But I don't believe non-citizens have the right to vote in a US election, any more than they have a right under the US Constitution to carry a firearm. Do I think the other governments of the world should model their protections for their citizen upon ours? Sure do, because I think we have the best country in the history of the world, and am a big believer in American Exceptionalism. Bottom line, I actively participate in my citizenship. But I AM a citizen, and while I was called arrogant, I feel it as pride. I also do NOT believe that our Constitution applies to anyone but a defined US citizen. We afford rights as protections to those who are subject to our laws, but that does NOT confer citizenship. Therefore, legally resident aliens in the US are and should be afforded the right to trial when accused of crimes, rights to an attorney, all that stuff. But it doesn't make them available to be born of Kenyan parents and become our President.... we have restrictions on who is and is not a legal citizen, and what is and is not afforded based on those facts.

    An additional point in all of this: I live in North Carolina, which is a shall issue state, is a permit recognized in 37 other states, and has a number of restrictions on who can or cannot receive the permit. One of those is that a US citizen who renounces that citizenship is disallowed the right to a CCW permit. Another is that anyone discharged from the military with other than an Honorable discharge is rejected. Clearly, there are institutional safeguards here, and clearly at least these two have basis in the individuals citizenship status. Another factor to consider is the national background check. This is done via the FBI, which does NOT investigate foreign violations of law.
    "The sheriff shall determine the
    criminal history of any applicant by accessing computerized criminal history
    records as maintained by the State and Federal Bureaus of Investigation, by
    conducting a national criminal history records check, and by conducting a
    criminal history check through the Administrative Office of the Courts. N.C.
    Gen. Stat. § 14-404"
    So I pose the question, can the US government, or the government of the state of North Carolina require the Canadian government (or by extrapolation any other foreign government) to provide background information on one of its citizens to a North Carolina county sheriff to meet this requirement? And I think every state is required to run this check as fulfillment of the Brady law, unless I'm mistaken!

  11. #30
    Here is my thoughts on how a background check on a resident alien can be performed. If you have not personally immigrated to the US from your country of birth there is a really good chance you have no idea what is involved getting here. I have done it, I have personal experience of what is involved.

    In order to be granted a visa to enter the US as an immigrant I had to provide the Immigration & Nationalization Service with police reports from all jurisdictions I had lived in. A condition of getting that visa was that the reports were of an acceptable standard, no drug offenses, no violence, no immorality, etc. No need for it to be checked again, it's not going to have changed as I haven't lived in the UK for over 10 years. I think the FBI understand that having the Green Card means my prior life in my country of birth was of an acceptable standard, and they have that information on file. When I apply for a conceal permit in any State I have to give my A#, I'm sure they don't just do that so they can punch some more numbers on a keyboard .. they demand it so they can cross reference with my visa application, my green card application and my entry record for each time I return to the US after foreign travel (fyi .. I'm fingerprinted every time I enter the country to ensure I am the same person).

    Opinions are one thing, but no one should post something as a fact when it is actually anything but.

    As for the current POTUS, in order to run for that office he has to have passed a background eligibility check. His father was an immigrant, but he was born in the US to a US Citizen mother and therefore he is a US Citizen by birth, born in the US & over the age of 35 and in that case is legally eligible for the position he holds. Unfortunately, he's doing a crap job of it.

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