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Thread: Cycling assault.

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by father-of-three View Post
    Using lethal force for what was described as a non-lethal mugging may not go well for you from a legal perspective. That scenario as described would probaly not justify lethal force in most states. I can see where the situation as described could go in a more lethal direction, which would make my first choice the pepper spray, and then a gun if the situation worsened and warranted such. It is difficult because being on a bike puts the individual in a complex reactive position that can make any type of defensive move more difficult.
    That scenario as described would not justify lethal force????? What universe are you from? 2 against 1 would be grounds for use of lethal force in all 50 states...... So would being "jumped" and knocked off your bike in a robbery....

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    That scenario as described would not justify lethal force?????
    I would have to agree with that. If someone jumped out from nowhere, yanked me off of my moving bicycle, and my body slammed to the ground, I would pretty much feel that they, at the least, meant to inflict serious injury to my body. If I were able to act in this situation, that bad guy might get more than just a good old fashioned ear pulling. He very well may end up with an extra bullet or two in his body. Much more likely so if there were a second BG present.
    God and brave men with guns made the USA a free nation. It will take the very same to keep it that way.

  4. #23
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    Maybe if someone politely stepped out into the trail, motioned for me to stop, then proceeded to somehow relieve me of my wallet without force...maybe that doesn't justify force...but if someone knocks me over violently, undoubtedly causing injury, and attempts to assault my person, I MAY not shoot, but someone besides me is going to be bleeding.

  5. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    That scenario as described would not justify lethal force????? What universe are you from? 2 against 1 would be grounds for use of lethal force in all 50 states...... So would being "jumped" and knocked off your bike in a robbery....
    Not all attacks justify the use of lethal force. One needs to take account of where they are, what the attacker has, as well as several other circumstances. I think I was reasonably clear in describing my position that such force [I]may[I] be necessary. Please make sure you are aware of the laws in all 50 states before making your assumption about them. My state is improving on this matter, but the recently passed "Stand your ground" measures will not go into effect until August 27 of this year. So in this scenario, using lethal force against 2 people whose only weapon may be "the element of surprise," may not go well from a legal standpoint, being that a trail in the woods is not my home.

  6. #25
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    An actual attack with 2 against one is ALWAYS a justified reason for using deadly force to stop the attack... It does NOT depend on what ***king State you are in, 2 people are attacking you.... if you stop to ponder what the damn law is before you defend yourself, you are an idiot of the highest measure.....


    To put it just a little more nicely....... Once you are outnumbered, all bets are off, do whatever you need to do...... To even think of planning otherwise (because of what State you happen to be in) is complete ignorance and will cost you your life..... How did that work out for ya? at least you didnt "break the law"... too bad yer dead....

  7. #26
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    Here's an Option

    Here is an interesting option: Model 23 Jogger Concealment Gun Holster

    The bad guy would never be able to rip this off of your body or use a knife to easily cut it free like he could a fanny pack. It would take too much effort & time for him to detach it, but it would be easy for you to get to your gun.
    Cycling assault.-257-jog.jpgCycling assault.-257.jpg

    Just a thought.
    God and brave men with guns made the USA a free nation. It will take the very same to keep it that way.

  8. A fanny pack is not a purse with a long dangling strap that can easily be cut and carried off. Also, it should be worn in the front or side of the body. The only way someone could cut off my fanny pack without cutting my flesh as well (because I don't wear it loosely) is if they are close to me and using their other hand to create a space between my body and the strap. Again, that puts them within my striking distance. Besides, how did they get that close to me without my taking action? If its that blind a corner they could conceivable pull me off of my bike, but while they are doing that I can disable them. I'm not trying to brag here because I know that anyone can be sucker-punched, but, with even a modicum of situational awareness, and bit of training, and most importantly, the WILL to fight back, this type of attack can be overcome. I suggest we could set up a training scenario with like-minded others and play this out. That would give us some answers. How hard is it to rip a fanny pack from someone?(on the back, front, either side?) What defensive moves work best from a bicycle? Can they remove you with one hand or will they need both? How does that affect your options? Just thinking through the situations will give us a big advantage when and if the time ever comes for real. Think bout it! Be Safe!

  9. #28
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    I'm trying to think of different ways that this scenario can play out. If anything can go wrong, it will from time to time. My comments below are not meant to be attacks. Please don't take them that way. They are just more things to think about if this ever happens to any of us.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    A fanny pack is not a purse with a long dangling strap that can easily be cut and carried off.
    Pickpockets all over the world steal them by slashing the strap with razors/boxcutters every day. If a pickpocket can do it in a stealthy manner, then someone who is willing to knock you off of a bicycle to rob you is probably not going to be worried about being gentle with that blade. Knocking you off of the bike is a tactical move that carries with it the intentions of disabling you, at least to a degree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    The only way someone could cut off my fanny pack without cutting my flesh as well...
    Exactly. I don't want to give the bad guy the benefit of the doubt. What if the bad guy doesn't care if he cuts you in the process of trying to take the fanny pack. Maybe, if it's tight, he won't be able to effectivly cut it free, but he may cut you up badly while he is trying to get it. Yes, if he is that close to you, you might have the opportunity to fight back, but if he happens to have a box cutter in his hand at that range, you may still end up looking like Swiss cheese after you get done showing him all of your moves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    Besides, how did they get that close to me without my taking action? If its that blind a corner they could conceivable pull me off of my bike, but while they are doing that I can disable them.
    Anything is possible. Just because you cannot see them doesn't mean that they cannot see you. The element of surprise has been used to take down many prepared men. As much as we might prepare and train (which is good to do), there is always the fact that sometimes things happen that we just do not see coming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    this type of attack can be overcome.
    Sometimes. And sometimes you end up looking like Swiss cheese.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    What defensive moves work best from a bicycle? Can they remove you with one hand or will they need both? How does that affect your options? Just thinking through the situations will give us a big advantage when and if the time ever comes for real.
    Good questions. How many hands? No one can guess how the BG would do it. My first thoughts would be that he would use two hands. What about inertia and momentum? Would they work for us or against us? I don't know. If I were yanked from a moving bike, I imagine that my balance would be lost for a couple of seconds (or more), I may be stunned or even injured from crashing to the ground. How well could I fight with a broken wrist or ankle? Could I manage to get my gun with my weak hand if my wrist is broken on my strong hand side, while I am having to fight him off with the broken wrist side? I hope that I don't have to find out.

    Nothing is set in stone when it comes to any scenario. There are just too many things that could go differently each time that they are played out. What if you land on the back of your head, breaking your neck? What if you land on your feet? What if the BG loses his balance and falls on you, accidentally shoving his blade into your gut as he falls? What if he pulls at your pack, accidentally pulling it open (exposing the gun). Will he get the gun? Will he use it? What if... Many different things could happen that might give you the upper hand, or many things can happen that might give him the upper hand. Anything can go wrong... or go right. Just some thoughts.
    God and brave men with guns made the USA a free nation. It will take the very same to keep it that way.

  10. #29
    Something I remember in my long distant past, was an assault on me when I was a kid delivering newspapers. In my case, my assailant was a German Shepard... and being as scared as I was at the time, simply reacted to those bared fangs coming at me, with plenty of barking and snarling. The only thing I had available was that bicycle, and I used it to beat the living **** out of that dog. Bet he didn't see that coming! If a bicycle is available to you, then you use it! If you need more, escalate!

  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by coachdb18 View Post
    The only thing I had available was that bicycle, and I used it to beat the living **** out of that dog. Bet he didn't see that coming! If a bicycle is available to you, then you use it! If you need more, escalate!
    That's hillarious! When I was a kid, there were some dogs that always became vicious along a stretch of road that I often traveled on my bike. Being scared, I started carrying a hammer with me. I ran the handle of it through a belt loop and I was ready! I never did hit one of them. I always managed to keep enough distance to keep from having to use it. Even though I never had to use it, I felt so much safer carrying it. I haven't thought of that in years until I read your post. Ahhh, the adventures of my childhood!
    God and brave men with guns made the USA a free nation. It will take the very same to keep it that way.

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