Automatic CCW permits for all military vets with honorable DD214 service? - Page 4
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Thread: Automatic CCW permits for all military vets with honorable DD214 service?

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    FLORIDA / JACKSONVILLE
    Posts
    213
    Im a vet and active in the air national guard. Someone with a honorable discharge doesn't mean they don't have a felony or two that would stop them from obtaining ccl. However the fingerprints could be crossed over. Federal government and state law are two seperate entities if not all of us would get a prescription and smoke out! ie california!

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  3. #32
    I think your in the ballpark as we should get our permits for free to those who choose to carry. I do think everyone needs some sort of training class to at least cover the basics. I personally think everyone should be able to take a safety class and then be able to carry without a permit.

  4. Hey coach, not all military service members qualify on pistols. That is unless something has changed since my departure in 2005. So automatic woudn't be serving them any justice as you'd be sacrificing training. Besides, they'd still need a course on the laws of the State they would be "permitted" in.

    Now I can say that I was allowed to have a letter from my COC to present in Missouri to illustrate that I had a recent handgun course and that was accepted at the time as equivalent training (MP unit). I do like a military exemption of some sort, but if we're making the exception only under the guise of service that's not much different than saying we'll grant you certain rights, but you MUST serve to get them. (see Starship Troopers about being a Citizen for an off the wall example)

    We could stretch the legs on this military subject for some time. Things like being denied the ability to purchase a handgun even though at 17 you can be trained by the military to use one and carry it during the course of your duties.

  5. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Santa Fe Area, New Mexico
    Posts
    3,487
    Quote Originally Posted by coachdb18 View Post
    I'd like to see ALL honorably discharged vets permitted to conceal carry on the basis of their DD214 alone, in ALL states, subject to no mental issues which would make their safe carrying in the general public a problem. After going through two active duty periods, a VERY thorough background check for a TS clearance, and multiple Expert marksmanship ribbons documented on those previously mentioned DD214's, I'm not sure what is left for my county sheriff to discover about me! As vets, we've also already been fingerprinted, so even that is redundant...and yes, I do have my North Carolina resident CCW permit, after jumping all the required hoops to get it.

    What say y'all? [Hey, I'm from North Carolina LOL]
    Agreed but the stipulation that your DD214 shows your handling/Qual of a Firearm. Mine has Expert (45 & .38) listed. I was able to use it in SC/Fla as proof of a Gun Safety course but I do think we should be afforded extra privilege for the Service we performed for our Country. As for the B.I., DOD won't and shouldn't open those files for review by civilian authority.
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." --author and philosopher Ayn Rand (1905-1982)

  6. #35
    I know that I hold a very unpopular opinion on this permit deal but I really don't care about all the handgun training and being able to put 5 in the 10 ring from 25 yards. All I really care is that someone basically know which end of the gun the bullet comes out of and how to shoot it in the general direction of where they are aiming. I was recently helping a young girl shoot a pistol for the first time and when I showed her how to line up the front and rear sights it was like a light came on. Until then she had no idea what those little bumps were for. Now she can easily hit COM at 10' which is probably all she would ever need.

    I do care about anyone carrying a gun around with no idea of the laws involving guns expecially someone walking aroung in public. Anyone who carrys a gun either OC or CC needs to know the laws on both the carry and use of a gun and not what they heard from a buddy at the bar last night. If you are in your home or your private property I don't care a whole lot but when you step out into the public it is a different story, I would like for there to be some kind of mandantory training even it if is part of the school curriculum, or a permit system (no cost) before being allowed to carry in public. The training would be on the laws not just involving carrying guns but what happens when you use one. Does a DD214 mean that you know anything about the castle doctrine or stand your ground? How about carrying in restaurants or bars of whether you need to OC or CC. I know some people that are gun "experts" or gun "nuts" for a better term. And some of them I would leave off everything but the "nuts" and wouldn't turn my back on them for 2 seconds it there is a gun around.

  7. #36
    I Agree and Disagree! First, I agree that some military veterans (I being one of them) that have it on their DD214 that they qualified with a pistol, should yes be exempt from weapons firing portion of any training. But, disagree and believe that they should be required to at least go through a portion of a training class on how to conceal carry and legal portion of any state they plan to get there CCW license in.
    Not all military personel qualify with a hand gun! Yes alot qualify with a rifle but that is a different weapon and in the military you never have to conceal it.
    As far as law enforcement, yes I believe they should all be exempt. Being a prior police officer of 11 years. I know there is not a state in the United States that does not require training and expect at sometime in his or her career that an officer is going to want to, have to, or need to carry concealed for their and their families protection. Therefore I believe that most officers have the experience and training to carry without going through a class that they have not already gone through.
    Once again I have been training police officer, military personel, and civilians for over 15 years on weapons instruction.
    Joseph
    Chief CCW Instructor
    Tri State Self Defense
    Concealed Weapons class, CCW CPL Wisconsin

  8. Permits for vets could be modeled on the legislation for retired police officers. Individuals who served as military police officers, non-commissioned officers, warrant officers or commissioned officers who have an honorable discharge and who can provide evidence of current training in their home state, who are not otherwise disqualified from possessing a firearm, and have appropriate douments in their possession would be entitled to carry a conceled firearm notwithstanding any state or local law to the contrary. That might have a slim chance of passing and might be a foot in the door for all vets. This would need to be a Federal law.

  9. #38
    Just what does the pro carry crowd really want? One group wants "Constitutional carry" where everybody, regardless of mental state or criminal record is be able to carry. Another group wants all ex-police and military to be able to carry. Another group wants to go with the current system of permit issue.

    We can't have all of these. We can have one and only one. If the state is going to issue permits , then it has to be available to anybody that qualifies and under standard requirements (Age, classes, Background Checks, etc.)

    When we start exempting Military and Police, we are issuing to special groups again and we don't need elitism in the HCP process. This has been perverted to only LEOs , Judges and State officials being issued permits in some jurisdictions. Most Military have little knowledge of the State Laws and for that matter, most LEOs are borderline ignorant of most state laws. They know the laws they enforce and little else.

    I say this from the perspective of a Retired service member (30 Years AD) and some LEO experience.

    Pick an equitable and constitutional (State) system for everybody and administer it fairly. When we CC we do it as civilians and under civilian law.

  10. I'm still trying to find the stipulation in the 2nd Amendment that it only applies to those with "adequate" training.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  11. #40
    It also says nothing about criminal record or mental health state. Not a criticism, just a statement of fact.
    I stated the criteria from the viewpoint of the current court opinion that it is a state function. I could endorse the Second Amendment stance if supported by the courts. However, I would then have to strongly advocate for the "no restrictions at all" system. If we decide to follow a very strict adherence to the amendment, then everybody, and I mean everybody, has to be allowed to carry. As soon as you make special deviations you leave the letter of the amendment.

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