Canton, OH Stop Revisited w/ Police Trainer - Page 4
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Thread: Canton, OH Stop Revisited w/ Police Trainer

  1. Quote Originally Posted by TekGreg View Post
    The FBI won't do anything about things the public doesn't complain about. I mean, if the public doesn't care that their police force is corrupt, why should the Fed waste resources cleaning it up? If complaint after complaint hits their office and the ACLU gets on the news complaining, then it looks bad if the FBI doesn't do something. Someone has to start the ball rolling.
    Thanks you gave me a good idea and I drafted a letter to the Oklahoma ACUL this morning regarding my arrest and treatment by the Tulsa Police Officer Kristy Maxwell Allen on July 16 2010.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TekGreg View Post
    BC1, Corporate employees are not watched as closely as LEO's or other public employees. Corporate employees are not always fired when found to be "failures." As a matter of fact, I and my family have worked in many of the Fortune 500 and seen people in the same chair for many, many years that could definitely be considered a "failure" at their job, but for one reason or another, no one ever got around to removing them from the company. I would say their waste of corporate time, resources, morale and synergy would definitely still qualify them as a "failure" and I can personally attest to an even greater than 25% rate in some corporations larger than 7,000 people.

    This is just a personal observation, but I'm sure if others look at it in this light, they can see "failures" in other businesses and corporations for what they truly are.
    Yeah but we're talking about something much more than a person not being a good employee. Sure there's lot's of poor workers, just call any customer support department. But we shouldn't be comparing that with a bonifide lunatic who is out of control and dangerous. This guy is much more than just a bad employee, he's disturbed. 25% of the work force is not comprised of such people.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TekGreg View Post
    The FBI won't do anything about things the public doesn't complain about.
    In places like Chicago, that's the ONLY thing they've EVER known.

    It's like North Korea, if North Koreans could watch or listen to anything they wanted and could come and go as they please, but STILL chose to be slaves.

    A LOT of Chicagoans that I've known, including relatives, are seemingly PROUD of the corruption, and simply can't IMAGINE living some place where you're WON'T be robbed by the police. For them, out of control police criminality is the NORM.

    On the other hand, you have people in small towns who simply REFUSE to believe that a home invasion ring could POSSIBLY operate for YEARS, INSIDE of a police department. NO amount of evidence will convince them. Cops just WOULDN'T do such things and it's simply IMPOSSIBLE.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    In places like Chicago, that's the ONLY thing they've EVER known.

    It's like North Korea, if North Koreans could watch or listen to anything they wanted and could come and go as they please, but STILL chose to be slaves.

    A LOT of Chicagoans that I've known, including relatives, are seemingly PROUD of the corruption, and simply can't IMAGINE living some place where you're WON'T be robbed by the police. For them, out of control police criminality is the NORM.

    On the other hand, you have people in small towns who simply REFUSE to believe that a home invasion ring could POSSIBLY operate for YEARS, INSIDE of a police department. NO amount of evidence will convince them. Cops just WOULDN'T do such things and it's simply IMPOSSIBLE.
    This very item of people thinking the cops can do no wrong, was my one real fear when my case went to the jury trial. Thank God they got it right and I was found not guilty.

    Later when the wife and I got our sit down with the Tulsa Oklahoma Police Mingo Vally Div. Officers and Officer Kristy Maxwell Allen. I told her after the jury found me not guilty, they asked the Judge Cliford Smith to allow them to shake my hand.
    Allen replied Quote: I don't care how many of the jury shook your hand the Jury got it wrong.

    Just shows when they close the ranks it's them against you, nothing will make them admit they were wrong about anything.

  6. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Hamilton Felix View Post
    Just a guess here, but maybe people fail to believe because more than 1-3% of their police encounters have been with ********. In addition to being a normal guy who occasionally gets a speeding ticket, I spent many years as a Volunteer EMT and Fire Chief: I've worked with and dealt with a few cops, ranging from the very finest to true sadistic psychopaths.

    Based on my lifetime of observation, I do not believe the 1-3% figure. Maybe once, but that was in the past. I've known some really fine Officers; most of them have retired or are about to. My best friend since Jr. High put in 30 years as a King County Mountie, and he's very glad to be out of it.

    Police are the enforcement tools of the ruling class, and what that ruling class wants today is not Officer Friendly.

    I am glad we have no "duty to declare" in my state, but I believe the linking of CPL to Driver's License and Vehicle Registration is done in hopes of causing a few violent events that can be used by the anti-freedom forces of the ruling class.
    Your opinion, my opinion, and everyone else' opinions of police are based on a lot more than the actual police officers themselves. Many people think more than 3% of cops are ******** because they have heard stories from other people... stories that are biased and filled with emotions. Opinions of police are also based on what we see in the media, the more stories and videos you hear about bad cops, the less you think of them, and when you do think of police, those stories are in the back of your head. Opinions are also based on emotions, like being mad about a speeding ticket and deciding the cop is an ******* because you dont think speeding is a big issue, or maybe you didnt like having to get searched.

    Ill say it once again, opinions we have towards the police are based on a lot more than the actual police officers themselves.

    Any ignorant person can say, "look at this video of the cop beating this guy up, and I heard from a friend that he got a DUI when he wasnt that drunk, and I heard another story on the news, and I didnt like how I was treated when I was arrested for fighting in public, therefore based on these stories, all cops are bad".
    I got a question: Those are some neat stories there, but what about the thousands of other police-citizen interactions every day that do not end with bad feelings or a video for the news? Thats because most cops do their job right, and are out there doing good work.

  7. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Yeah but we're talking about something much more than a person not being a good employee. Sure there's lot's of poor workers, just call any customer support department. But we shouldn't be comparing that with a bonifide lunatic who is out of control and dangerous. This guy is much more than just a bad employee, he's disturbed. 25% of the work force is not comprised of such people.
    Well, I was only comparing people that didn't do their jobs and were fire-able - to me, these are all failures. But to be fair, the comparison wouldn't truly be compete unless we placed guns in the hands of everyone in corporate America and allowed them the ability to enforce, say, a balance sheet, by pulling a gun and taking someone to jail! It's a ridiculous premise, I know, but I bet we would find a lot more "bona fide lunatics," as you put it.
    Edmund Burke: “The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.” – 1784 speech. Taken from Founding Fathers Notes. "The unarmed man is not just defenseless -- he is also contemptible." Machiavelli

  8. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by rifleshooter474 View Post
    Thanks you gave me a good idea and I drafted a letter to the Oklahoma ACUL this morning regarding my arrest and treatment by the Tulsa Police Officer Kristy Maxwell Allen on July 16 2010.
    Hey, Great! I hope they can do something to help! Good luck on that course of action.
    Edmund Burke: “The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.” – 1784 speech. Taken from Founding Fathers Notes. "The unarmed man is not just defenseless -- he is also contemptible." Machiavelli

  9. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    In places like Chicago, that's the ONLY thing they've EVER known.

    It's like North Korea, if North Koreans could watch or listen to anything they wanted and could come and go as they please, but STILL chose to be slaves.

    A LOT of Chicagoans that I've known, including relatives, are seemingly PROUD of the corruption, and simply can't IMAGINE living some place where you're WON'T be robbed by the police. For them, out of control police criminality is the NORM.

    On the other hand, you have people in small towns who simply REFUSE to believe that a home invasion ring could POSSIBLY operate for YEARS, INSIDE of a police department. NO amount of evidence will convince them. Cops just WOULDN'T do such things and it's simply IMPOSSIBLE.
    Absolutely Correct.

    North Korea is a Communist State - I have no experience living in such a environment so I can't really comment about how to change their state of affairs.

    It sounds like Chicagoans don't wish to change their corrupt police force and therefore the only recourse for those not wishing to be abused is to move. Since Illinois has never been gun-friendly anyway, this may be the only state where fighting may not be the best course of action and moving a good idea.

    Obviously, I was making the point of view of citizenry that wished to live in a non-corrupt, friendly city that got along with a law-abiding and law-enforcing police force. If this isn't the case, then you as a citizen might have to re-evaluate if you wish to continue to live where you are.
    Edmund Burke: “The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.” – 1784 speech. Taken from Founding Fathers Notes. "The unarmed man is not just defenseless -- he is also contemptible." Machiavelli

  10. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle View Post
    Your opinion, my opinion, and everyone else' opinions of police are based on a lot more than the actual police officers themselves. Many people think more than 3% of cops are ******** because they have heard stories from other people... stories that are biased and filled with emotions. Opinions of police are also based on what we see in the media, the more stories and videos you hear about bad cops, the less you think of them, and when you do think of police, those stories are in the back of your head. Opinions are also based on emotions, like being mad about a speeding ticket and deciding the cop is an ******* because you dont think speeding is a big issue, or maybe you didnt like having to get searched.

    Ill say it once again, opinions we have towards the police are based on a lot more than the actual police officers themselves.

    Any ignorant person can say, "look at this video of the cop beating this guy up, and I heard from a friend that he got a DUI when he wasnt that drunk, and I heard another story on the news, and I didnt like how I was treated when I was arrested for fighting in public, therefore based on these stories, all cops are bad".
    I got a question: Those are some neat stories there, but what about the thousands of other police-citizen interactions every day that do not end with bad feelings or a video for the news? Thats because most cops do their job right, and are out there doing good work.
    DesertEagle, you're absolutely correct! Emotions always come into play. My wife and I literally just got done watching a video on TruTV (It was one of the shows that aires dashboard cams from police cars) where a trooper pulled a guy over for a speeding ticket. After issuing the ticket, The driver went completely ballistic on the officer, screaming, cussing, flailing at him in his vehicle, tore the ticket up and threw it at the officer. The officer remained completely unemotional in the face of this barrage of insults, which clearly qualified as Assault on a Peace Officer, and then he told the driver he needed to pick up the pieces of ticket or he would be cited for littering. The driver got out and kept up the tirade while picking up the pieces, screaming and cussing at the top of his lungs while the officer just stood there. The driver got back in his car and tore off down the road while the officer simply watched him and offered a "Bye" as he disappeared. The officer was the epitome of calm and collected. He had absorbed all of the driver's abuse without blinking an eye, but these types of videos don't really entertain the public because it's not the officer AGAINST a civilian, it's a civilian abusing an officer, which we don't like to acknowledge happens every single day.

    Something you said rings true, though, DesertEagle. A psychology teacher of mine told a class one time that we make choices emotionally and then justify them logically. What this means in this case is that a lot of people will decide whether or not they are going to like law enforcement or not (emotional decision) and then they will start gathering evidence to only support their decision - only watch the bad police videos if they hate police, etc. It's obvious I'm an LEO supporter, but I embrace problems like this because I believe they happen and they need to be dealt with. I think if we look fairly at both sides of the issue, we will see LEO's as humans and maybe find better ways to deal with them in real life situations.
    Edmund Burke: “The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.” – 1784 speech. Taken from Founding Fathers Notes. "The unarmed man is not just defenseless -- he is also contemptible." Machiavelli

  11. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by TekGreg View Post
    A psychology teacher of mine told a class one time that we make choices emotionally and then justify them logically. What this means in this case is that a lot of people will decide whether or not they are going to like law enforcement or not (emotional decision) and then they will start gathering evidence to only support their decision - only watch the bad police videos if they hate police, etc. It's obvious I'm an LEO supporter, but I embrace problems like this because I believe they happen and they need to be dealt with. I think if we look fairly at both sides of the issue, we will see LEO's as humans and maybe find better ways to deal with them in real life situations.
    The psychology part is very true and Im glad you mention it. I also agree that in cases like this when officers are acting outside the law, they need to be dealt with by being taken off the streets, and repaying the damages they did to the citizens.

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