Canton, OH Stop Revisited w/ Police Trainer
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Thread: Canton, OH Stop Revisited w/ Police Trainer

  1. #1

    Lightbulb Canton, OH Stop Revisited w/ Police Trainer

    As a benefit to the firearms forum community, I took it upon myself to contact a police officer I know regarding the Canton, OH CCW stop. He is a training officer for regular officers and SWAT for over a dozen years, and also currently teaches the CCW class in Ohio. He gave me permission to quote him on his response when I told him I wished to get an official answer back to the readers of the forum.

    First off, my officer's response about the Canton, OH officer's behavior: "He's an a$$hole. However, law enforcement has a failure rate of 2-3% (officers like the one in the video) and corporate America has a failure rate of 25%, so police recruiting is doing about 10 times better than the business average. The problem is we hire humans, and there will always be some failures that slip through all the screening that we do. The good news is that they will eventually do something like the officer in the video and be fired for it."

    Next, as far as immediate notification of CCW: "The first words out of your mouth should be "I have a CCW" as you hand BOTH your CCW and your license to the officer. Keep your CCW with your license so you can draw them as one and hand them with the CCW on TOP. Do not start with, 'Officer' or 'Hello' as this gives a chance for the officer to interrupt you. If you are still told to shut up, you should keep your license and CCW held out towards the officer and comply with his instructions. You can only do the best you can under the circumstances."

    Final notes from my officer: "I hope everyone will remember that this is a training problem with the officers and 97-98% of the time will NOT happen! I am adding this video to my officer training set as an example of how not to handle a CCW stop and the perfect way to get fired. If you are unlucky enough to be stopped by someone like this officer, do exactly what the driver in the video did - stay cool, agree with the officer, follow his commands, and settle it the next day with attorneys and his superiors."

    On my phone call to my officer, he said that the communication center in Ohio should always inform the officer that the tag they are pulling over is attached to a person who has a CCW, so in Ohio, the officer should already know. But this doesn't relieve your duty to inform. When you inform, you basically show the officer that you know the law and intend to comply, which means you are law-abiding and are probably not going to pull the weapon on him. It's a courtesy for the safety of the officer. However, in my officer's own words: "We are trained police officers. We are supposed to treat every stop as if the driver and passengers are armed. It should not surprise an officer that you are carrying and he definitely shouldn't over-react like the officer in the video."

    I hope this clarifies it for some people and puts some answers to the grey areas. If you have any questions that still exist, especially for Ohio CCW carriers, post them in response to this and I'll pass them along to my training officer for his comment.
    Edmund Burke: “The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.” – 1784 speech. Taken from Founding Fathers Notes. "The unarmed man is not just defenseless -- he is also contemptible." Machiavelli

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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by TekGreg View Post
    Next, as far as immediate notification of CCW: "The first words out of your mouth should be "I have a CCW" as you hand BOTH your CCW and your license to the officer. Keep your CCW with your license so you can draw them as one and hand them with the CCW on TOP. Do not start with, 'Officer' or 'Hello' as this gives a chance for the officer to interrupt you. If you are still told to shut up, you should keep your license and CCW held out towards the officer and comply with his instructions. You can only do the best you can under the circumstances."
    Wouldn't it be easier just to flash your CCW Badge?

  4. #3
    What you say makes sense. It is a different flavor of muscle memory to not allow police to scare oneself into not remembering to do the right thing. I think people, myself included, worry about being on the negative end of that 3%. Sometimes it seems that people are at the mercy of a police officer's bad day, hoping for objectivity and fairness, but only getting the officer's opinion and emotional state in which the citizen suffers as a result. To be fair, police officers have bad days like the rest of us, but to take it out like in the Canton video is just plain wrong.

  5. But this doesn't relieve your duty to inform. When you inform, you basically show the officer that you know the law and intend to comply, which means you are law-abiding and are probably not going to pull the weapon on him.
    Most CHL holders I know HAVE their licenses because they ARE law abiding citizens. This whole Ohio immediately notify law is complete crap and needs to be removed immediately as it just gives police total ambiguity as to when "immediate" is.

  6. #5
    As many times as I say it, many people still fail to understand or they simply refuse to believe that only 1-3% of cops are the "bad" ones. Every day there are thousands of police-citizen interactions in all 50 states, 24/7/365, and only the ones that make mistakes are on the news.

    Good advice from your friend.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by G50AE View Post
    Wouldn't it be easier just to flash your CCW Badge?
    In Ohio, our CCW classes were told to NEVER buy one of the CCW badges as they can be considered "Impersonating a Law Enforcement Officer" and get you in a lot more trouble than the need to inform. No one in Ohio is supposed to be flashing a badge except actual law enforcement officers (LEO).
    Edmund Burke: “The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.” – 1784 speech. Taken from Founding Fathers Notes. "The unarmed man is not just defenseless -- he is also contemptible." Machiavelli

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle View Post
    As many times as I say it, many people still fail to understand or they simply refuse to believe that only 1-3% of cops are the "bad" ones. Every day there are thousands of police-citizen interactions in all 50 states, 24/7/365, and only the ones that make mistakes are on the news.

    Good advice from your friend.
    Great point, DesertEagle! Last time I got pulled over, I informed immediately and the officer didn't even look up from his pad. He drawled towards me, "Are ya gonna shoot me wit' it?" "No, hadn't planned on it!" I replied. "Good, then jes keep yer hands off'n it an' we'll be good." was his whole response. And he never even looked at me. Hardly could be considered a bad attitude! The hundreds of thousands of stops every day that go like mine will never make Youtube and those are the ones that almost every one of us will be involved in. Just don't panic and make it into more than it has to be!
    Edmund Burke: “The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.” – 1784 speech. Taken from Founding Fathers Notes. "The unarmed man is not just defenseless -- he is also contemptible." Machiavelli

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaBlue View Post
    Most CHL holders I know HAVE their licenses because they ARE law abiding citizens. This whole Ohio immediately notify law is complete crap and needs to be removed immediately as it just gives police total ambiguity as to when "immediate" is.
    We're working on it, FloridaBlue, but like everything else political, it takes a LOT of time!
    Edmund Burke: “The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.” – 1784 speech. Taken from Founding Fathers Notes. "The unarmed man is not just defenseless -- he is also contemptible." Machiavelli

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by father-of-three View Post
    What you say makes sense. It is a different flavor of muscle memory to not allow police to scare oneself into not remembering to do the right thing. I think people, myself included, worry about being on the negative end of that 3%. Sometimes it seems that people are at the mercy of a police officer's bad day, hoping for objectivity and fairness, but only getting the officer's opinion and emotional state in which the citizen suffers as a result. To be fair, police officers have bad days like the rest of us, but to take it out like in the Canton video is just plain wrong.
    Father, the good thing to remember is that, just like officer Canton, OH, those evil 1-3% can only do that ONCE if we do what we're supposed to do. As my officer said, they WILL be weeded out and fired, but we have to turn them in when these things happen. If we help to enforce the law on BOTH sides, the public benefits every time.
    Edmund Burke: “The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.” – 1784 speech. Taken from Founding Fathers Notes. "The unarmed man is not just defenseless -- he is also contemptible." Machiavelli

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by TekGreg View Post
    As my officer said, they WILL be weeded out and fired, but we have to turn them in when these things happen.
    Not so much.

    It depends ENTIRELY upon where you are. There are places (like Chicago, New Orleans and Philadelphia) where a Harless can not only get by, he can PROSPER. If he's in the right environment, a cop can shoot an unarmed man, lie about it, get found out, and still get promoted. It happened in Chicago with Officer Alvin Weems. He murdered a guy and got promoted to detective. He recently ate his own gun... YEARS after the crime, and while an active cop.

    Don't kid yourself about "bad apples" getting "weeded out". It took Weems "weeding" HIMSELF out.

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