CC to & from workplace and public transportation
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Thread: CC to & from workplace and public transportation

  1. #1

    CC to & from workplace and public transportation

    Sorry for a lengthy intro but hopefully this will focus the discussion... I have read that in most states with CC it is legal to keep your firearm in your car on your employer's property (parking lot) even though the employer bans weapons from their property. I'm assuming this is because your car is your personal property AND if you could not keep it in your car that your employer would essentially be denying your 2nd amendment rights during transportation to & from work.

    Okay, keep that second part of the last sentence in mind while you ponder my situation. I live and work in Chicago, IL. The SAF lawsuit challenging Illinois' ban on CC had oral arguments last Thursday and from what I've read an opinion could be issued this week. Despite the abundance of liberal activist judges in this area, if the district judge rules based upon the appealed Chicago gun range lawsuit decision (as they should - granted I'm not a lawyer but seems like a slam dunk win for us) then the ban is removed. Should this happen and injunct the current ban without any current carry legislation on the books, I will want to carry immediately... obviously taking into account legal guidance from NRA, SAF and Illinois State Rifle Assoc.

    Here's the twist... Chicago is somewhat unique compared to gun friendly cities / states in that we have a well established public transportation system. We have the famous "EL" trains, metra trains (suburbs to city) and a great bus system (within city & between suburbs). As a result, most people who work downtown take some sort of public transportation or live close enough to walk to work. I either walk 15 min to work or take a bus depending on my mood or weather.

    How is carrying on public transportation handled in other cities / states? And here's the hard part... If I walk or take public transportation to work (work does not allow firearms), how can I exercise my right since I am not driving my car to leave the gun in? Would my employer have to make some sort of accomodation (lockers in the security room, cage with secure access and lockers in the parking garage, etc.) so that they do not deny me my 2nd amendment right to bear arms and protect myself on my way to and from work? Could they force me to me drive so that I could leave it in my car? Does it make a difference if, although the parking is free to me, is considered taxable compensation to me and I'd basically have a tax bill for driving (e.g. there's a cost to me driving instead of walking)? Is that considered harm since I'd be forced to pay something to practice my right?

    Sorry, there's a lot going on here... but does anyone have any thoughts, similar experience or actual legal knowledge of these circumstances?

  2.   
  3. #2

    Choices...

    Quote Originally Posted by mtallit View Post
    Sorry for a lengthy intro but hopefully this will focus the discussion... I have read that in most states with CC it is legal to keep your firearm in your car on your employer's property (parking lot) even though the employer bans weapons from their property. I'm assuming this is because your car is your personal property AND if you could not keep it in your car that your employer would essentially be denying your 2nd amendment rights during transportation to & from work.

    Okay, keep that second part of the last sentence in mind while you ponder my situation. I live and work in Chicago, IL. The SAF lawsuit challenging Illinois' ban on CC had oral arguments last Thursday and from what I've read an opinion could be issued this week. Despite the abundance of liberal activist judges in this area, if the district judge rules based upon the appealed Chicago gun range lawsuit decision (as they should - granted I'm not a lawyer but seems like a slam dunk win for us) then the ban is removed. Should this happen and injunct the current ban without any current carry legislation on the books, I will want to carry immediately... obviously taking into account legal guidance from NRA, SAF and Illinois State Rifle Assoc.

    Here's the twist... Chicago is somewhat unique compared to gun friendly cities / states in that we have a well established public transportation system. We have the famous "EL" trains, metra trains (suburbs to city) and a great bus system (within city & between suburbs). As a result, most people who work downtown take some sort of public transportation or live close enough to walk to work. I either walk 15 min to work or take a bus depending on my mood or weather.

    How is carrying on public transportation handled in other cities / states? And here's the hard part... If I walk or take public transportation to work (work does not allow firearms), how can I exercise my right since I am not driving my car to leave the gun in? Would my employer have to make some sort of accomodation (lockers in the security room, cage with secure access and lockers in the parking garage, etc.) so that they do not deny me my 2nd amendment right to bear arms and protect myself on my way to and from work? Could they force me to me drive so that I could leave it in my car? Does it make a difference if, although the parking is free to me, is considered taxable compensation to me and I'd basically have a tax bill for driving (e.g. there's a cost to me driving instead of walking)? Is that considered harm since I'd be forced to pay something to practice my right?

    Sorry, there's a lot going on here... but does anyone have any thoughts, similar experience or actual legal knowledge of these circumstances?
    I am no lawyer, but I would say that your employer is not actively denying your right to carry if you choose to ride public transportation to work. I also seriously doubt that they have to go out of their way (by giving you a locker) to accommodate your choice of transportation which leaves you with no personal property in which to store your weapon.

    For many, choosing to carry includes a willingness to be inconvenienced for the sake of maintaining the ability to carry. Do you dress the way you want to or do you dress around the gun? Do you take the most convenient method of transportation to work or do you drive so that you have a personal storage space for your gun when you go into work?

  4. My deepest apologies for not having anything of value to contribute. And I really mean that. But those five paragraphs sum up why I live in the country.

  5. I'm with eaccents. The ability to bear arms may be a right; but it is a 'public' right, one that private property owners may deny. And in denying it where they are allowed to, they are under no obligation to make accomodations for you.

    To use an unrelated made-up example (I am not a lawyer, so take what I'm writing with a grain of salt, but to me it seems a valid comparison,) lets say you are quadriplegic. Obviously, by the ADA, your employer must make reasonable accommodations for you when working for them. First, they *CAN* deny you a job that truly requires the use of arms or legs. You're not going to be a stock boy at a grocery store when you can't pick things up to put them on the shelf. But you could hold an office job just fine with voice recognition software. They'd even have to allow an assistance animal to be with you.

    BUT, lets say one of their benefits is a parking allowance to cover parking at your choice of nearby parking garage. They cover the usual monthly rate for your area. Well, you can't drive. Lets also assume that there is no local transit able to accommodate your wheelchair. (Hence, they can't just give you a bus pass instead.) So, would they be required to pay full taxi fare for you to come to work every day? I would say no. You have rights, things that they MUST accommodate. But they don't have to go out of their way to cover things that aren't a direct impact on your actual WORK.

    They wouldn't have to pay for the quadriplegic's taxi ride, and they don't have to provide some way for you to store your concealed weapon.

    You need to decide if your 'need' to concealed carry outweighs your willingness to work for an employer that disallows it. If you consider concealed carry more important, find a new job.

    eaccents, I dress the way I want. I just happen to dress in a way that makes concealed carry of my chosen weapon easy. (I didn't start dressing this way for ease of concealed carry, and I didn't even pick my gun specifically for ease of concealed carry; just lucky coincidences.)

  6. #5
    Join Date
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    Soverign State of Poverty Knob near Tennessee
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    Illinois Concealed Carry Permit Information

    "Concealed Permit:
    Illinois does not issue concealed weapon permits.
    Open Carry:
    Prohibited in all public areas."

    The above is from the Concealed Carry Permit Info tab at the top of Concealed Carry - Reciprocity Maps - Concealed Weapons Permit Info pages. According to what I understand, if I get caught carrying (P.O.V., Public transportation, walking down the street, hovering above the street, breathing Illinois air) I am committing a felony. My Tennessee permit is honored in 38 states, and not honored in 12. If you carry, I wish you the best of luck with any LEO encounters.
    Let's hear it for Gun Free Zones... Public places where the criminal has a monopoly
    on self defense. - Gary Nelson 2012

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by eaccents View Post
    I am no lawyer, but I would say that your employer is not actively denying your right to carry if you choose to ride public transportation to work. I also seriously doubt that they have to go out of their way (by giving you a locker) to accommodate your choice of transportation which leaves you with no personal property in which to store your weapon.

    For many, choosing to carry includes a willingness to be inconvenienced for the sake of maintaining the ability to carry. Do you dress the way you want to or do you dress around the gun? Do you take the most convenient method of transportation to work or do you drive so that you have a personal storage space for your gun when you go into work?
    Good point about choices. I knew ahead of time that particular question about making accomodations is possibly a longshot, but consider this... my employer has built bike racks in the parking garage to aid those biking to work. So, they have made accomodations for something as insignificant as biking to work, much less accomodations that would support a constitutional right.

    Most downtown buildings have done things like this, so why shouldn't they purchase & mount some lockers? Hey, make us bring our own lock!

  8. #7

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by WB9IIE View Post
    Illinois Concealed Carry Permit Information

    "Concealed Permit:
    Illinois does not issue concealed weapon permits.
    Open Carry:
    Prohibited in all public areas."

    The above is from the Concealed Carry Permit Info tab at the top of Concealed Carry - Reciprocity Maps - Concealed Weapons Permit Info pages. According to what I understand, if I get caught carrying (P.O.V., Public transportation, walking down the street, hovering above the street, breathing Illinois air) I am committing a felony. My Tennessee permit is honored in 38 states, and not honored in 12. If you carry, I wish you the best of luck with any LEO encounters.
    I know my write-up was long, sorry about that... but I addressed this point regarding the preliminary & permanent injuction lawsuits. One NRA/ISRA and one SAF. SAF one is very close to district court opinion.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by mtallit View Post
    Good point about choices. I knew ahead of time that particular question about making accomodations is possibly a longshot, but consider this... my employer has built bike racks in the parking garage to aid those biking to work. So, they have made accomodations for something as insignificant as biking to work, much less accomodations that would support a constitutional right.

    Most downtown buildings have done things like this, so why shouldn't they purchase & mount some lockers? Hey, make us bring our own lock!
    Likely your employer has an interest in promoting biking to work, therefore they went ahead and spent money on installing bike racks.

    I'm not sure you would have the same luck in convincing your employer to promote bringing firearms to work. Remember, going green is good for a company's image as it is supposed to encourage your employees to exercise, decrease our carbon footprint, and decrease the overall traffic congestion.

    I guess there is no harm in trying, eh?

  10. #9
    Trace Atkins summed it up pretty well - your freedom of [whatever] protects you from the government, not [a private citizen].

    This means freedom of speech, you can't say whatever you want in a meeting, can you?
    Freedom of religion, but you can't go preaching around your office, can you?
    Freedom of illegal search, but your bags can be looked at when you enter/exit the building, yes?

    This is because you have the ultimate freedom, to not be at the private place, meaning you could get a job at someplace that does allow concealed carry.

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ecduc8r_NH View Post
    Trace Atkins summed it up pretty well - your freedom of [whatever] protects you from the government, not [a private citizen].

    This means freedom of speech, you can't say whatever you want in a meeting, can you?
    Freedom of religion, but you can't go preaching around your office, can you?
    Freedom of illegal search, but your bags can be looked at when you enter/exit the building, yes?

    This is because you have the ultimate freedom, to not be at the private place, meaning you could get a job at someplace that does allow concealed carry.
    I think this is a little different. I am not asking to carry at work. Just to store the gun somewhere secure before I enter the work location building. Plus, I can't think of any office employer, I'm a CPA, that would allow carrying unless you work for the FBI, CIA, Police or other such employers.

    Plus, your theory totally reflects Chicago's stance on guns. You want one, then live or work someplace else. Hell no!

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