4:00 Conceal Position - Page 2
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Thread: 4:00 Conceal Position

  1. #11
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    Feb 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Stay to your strong-side. In "NRA Personal Protection Outside The Home" we teach only strong side draw techniques (OWB & IWB) as they are the fastest and safest. Avoid carrying small-of-back or cross-draw (unless in a car).
    And pray your strong arm does not get hit before you draw, or that you are not trying to control the BG with your strong arm while trying to draw, or that the BG is not controlling your strong arm while you are trying to draw. While you are praying, just pray that you don't get into a gunfight and leave the gun at home. I don't know about the rest of the people here, but I am in and out of a car quite a bit when I am "outside the home". What does the NRA want us to do, carry two holsters?

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punch View Post
    And pray your strong arm does not get hit before you draw, or that you are not trying to control the BG with your strong arm while trying to draw, or that the BG is not controlling your strong arm while you are trying to draw. While you are praying, just pray that you don't get into a gunfight and leave the gun at home. I don't know about the rest of the people here, but I am in and out of a car quite a bit when I am "outside the home". What does the NRA want us to do, carry two holsters?
    Excellent point! Readers should consider what you're describing.

    The NRA class is geared toward persons with no personal protection experience. The class brings them from a basic to an intermediate level. When carrying in a car the best method is probably cross-draw. But we can't overload the newbies with too much in their first class or they confuse the techniques. Cross-draw and small-of-back are still good choices for many people and circumstances dictate which method of carry is best. Their are lots of advanced PP classes that teach personal protection from within a car, wheelchair, etc. These teach alternative methods of carry. I use a sof-tuck holster because it's adjustable and can be used on strong-side, cross-draw or small-of-back. On long drives I carry cross-draw.

    By using awareness, avoidance, deterrence and de-escalation as a first line of defense we hope to not get caught behind the ractionary curve. But when this happens it is much more difficult to defend yourself and the strong arm may be disabled or busy fending off the attack. And most of us can't stay in "yellow" or "alert" mode all the time.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Excellent point! Readers should consider what you're describing.

    The NRA class is geared toward persons with no personal protection experience. The class brings them from a basic to an intermediate level. When carrying in a car the best method is probably cross-draw. But we can't overload the newbies with too much in their first class or they confuse the techniques. Cross-draw and small-of-back are still good choices for many people and circumstances dictate which method of carry is best. Their are lots of advanced PP classes that teach personal protection from within a car, wheelchair, etc. These teach alternative methods of carry. I use a sof-tuck holster because it's adjustable and can be used on strong-side, cross-draw or small-of-back. On long drives I carry cross-draw.

    By using awareness, avoidance, deterrence and de-escalation as a first line of defense we hope to not get caught behind the ractionary curve. But when this happens it is much more difficult to defend yourself and the strong arm may be disabled or busy fending off the attack. And most of us can't stay in "yellow" or "alert" mode all the time.
    I agree with everything that you wrote. I go with a FIST IWB holster that is adjustable for cant. I have one on order for the Glock 30SF that is adjustable not only for cant, but for strong or weak carry. Carrying the pistol butt forward is a habit that I picked up long ago when carrying long barreled single actions. The habit never left me, and in spite of years of IPSC and IDPA shooting (where only strong side carry is allowed), and many advanced shooting courses (the majority of which dictate strong side carry for "safety"), I always seem to drift back to the butt forward carry mode. The big worry that instructors have had with "cross draw" is that it tends to "sweep" a much larger arc than they are comfortable with on the range, particularly if the person drawing does not know what they are doing (most of them, as you probably know as an instructor). I can understand this. However, you should see the look on their faces when I draw the pistol from the butt forward weak side using the weak hand, sweep nothing other than my target, and still do it faster than most people can draw from a "tucked" strong side holster! Another issue that law enforcement types have is that the butt forward carry allows very good access to your pistol by the person in front of you. This is true when they know that you are armed. Since my pistol is concealed, this becomes less of an issue. However, close retention techniques should be a part of ANY advanced course. The third issue, and it is a big one for instructors, is that the drawing drill is different for cross draw. This may not be an issue with intensive one on one instruction, but it can be a major factor when teaching groups.

    In any case, I totally agree with your last paragraph, and it cannot be stated too much. When asked about the best way to win a gunfight, Wyatt Earp said "don't show up". That is one of my mottoes, too.

  5. #14
    If I use in waistband I have it in the 6oclock slight angled to the left so I can draw with either hand fast. I practice my draws with a weighted airsoft pistol so I still have the real weight and size without the real gun. I also practice when I go shooting with the real gun but here in Maine there are very few public ranges that allow you to do so (and I don't have 100$ a month yet to spend to shoot once every 2 months)

  6. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    Sandpoint, Idaho
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    Why do I have to wait until that late in the day to carry? Geeze guys, that doesn't seem very effective at all.

  7. Bad guys don't come out until later in the day :)

  8. Left-handed, Super Tuck 8:00 position forward cant for my M&P40C.

  9. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Western Iowa
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    60
    To reply to the original suggestion after reading the thread, carry position will be different with different people, body styles and dress styles. I have a cross breed that I dearly love but I have a suggestion to offer as well. I have a $10 holster I almost never used to carry in that I bought at a big box sporting goods store. The best thing about it is that it was reversable so I could configure it for either left or right handed carry for strong side, weak side, SOB, cross draw; almost any carry position I wanted to try. You might want to try to find something like that so you can try different carry positions before spending big bucks on a good holster. It won't be NEARLY as comfortable as a good holster but it'll give you a feel for the carry position. That can save you from ending up with a drawer full of expensive holsters you can't use.

  10. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punch View Post
    I agree with everything that you wrote. I go with a FIST IWB holster that is adjustable for cant. I have one on order for the Glock 30SF that is adjustable not only for cant, but for strong or weak carry. Carrying the pistol butt forward is a habit that I picked up long ago when carrying long barreled single actions. The habit never left me, and in spite of years of IPSC and IDPA shooting (where only strong side carry is allowed), and many advanced shooting courses (the majority of which dictate strong side carry for "safety"), I always seem to drift back to the butt forward carry mode. The big worry that instructors have had with "cross draw" is that it tends to "sweep" a much larger arc than they are comfortable with on the range, particularly if the person drawing does not know what they are doing (most of them, as you probably know as an instructor). I can understand this. However, you should see the look on their faces when I draw the pistol from the butt forward weak side using the weak hand, sweep nothing other than my target, and still do it faster than most people can draw from a "tucked" strong side holster! Another issue that law enforcement types have is that the butt forward carry allows very good access to your pistol by the person in front of you. This is true when they know that you are armed. Since my pistol is concealed, this becomes less of an issue. However, close retention techniques should be a part of ANY advanced course. The third issue, and it is a big one for instructors, is that the drawing drill is different for cross draw. This may not be an issue with intensive one on one instruction, but it can be a major factor when teaching groups.

    In any case, I totally agree with your last paragraph, and it cannot be stated too much. When asked about the best way to win a gunfight, Wyatt Earp said "don't show up". That is one of my mottoes, too.
    I too have always been a fan of the old west. I read a few bio's on the old gunfighters. I never realized that most movies had it wrong. Guys like Wild Bill Hickock carried two revolvers, butt forward. Apparently that was the favored method of the plainsmen of the 1850-1870 era. They could jerk that pistol out and turn sideways in a flash. I guess the sidestep made them a smaller target too.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  11. #20
    I carry my Glock 19 in a Supertuck at about the 3:30 to 4:00 position. The front clip is centered over the watch pocket of my Levis. I find it quite comfortable in this position.

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