Sheepdog attitude...pros vs. cons - Page 2
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Thread: Sheepdog attitude...pros vs. cons

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    Colorado Rocky Mountain High
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    3,900
    To be perfectly honest “sheep dogs” scare me, they strike me as the type of person that is carrying a gun just waiting for a chance to be “a hero”. It’s been my experience that people that want to be heroes tend to blow a situation out of proportion in their quest to fulfill the “sheep dog” role.

    Any time I carry a gun (which is all the time) I am incurring the risk of liability and I am accepting full responsibility for my actions. Why would I want to add to that risk by deliberately interjecting myself into a situation that has nothing to do with me? Also how am I fulfilling my responsibility to protect my family by adding to their risk (of losing their primary provider) by so doing?

    IMO anyone who grabs onto that title is looking for something outside themselves to add meaning to their life and (also IMO) they are looking in a very dangerous place

    Grossman’s “Sheep, Sheepdogs and Wolves” was mainly directed at professional soldiers and police officers it was never intended to be a Raison d'Ítre for concealed carry permit holders. It’s an analogy and like all analogies its flawed and you don’t have to take it too far to find the flaws.

    Sheep are herd animals that are kept not out of the benevolent goodness of their owner’s heart but because they produce goods that benefit the owner and only the owner. Where do you think the term getting “fleeced” came from? Unproductive sheep are killed.

    Sheepdogs are not part of the flock they are employed to impose the owner’s will on the sheep, by force if necessary. They guard the flock because it is of benefit to the owner and they have no qualms about herding the flock to a slaughterhouse if that is what the owner commands. Sheep dog is not an appellation I would care to have applied to me.

    It has been my experience that those, in the permit holder community, who seek the title of sheepdog, tend to be authoritarians who use it as a means of self aggrandizement. They tend to derive their feelings of self worth from the position of quasi authority they assume their permit gives them. This is, of course, my opinion but I have also seen posters on gun boards state that our status as permit holders makes us defacto auxiliary police officers. As such I believe the sheepdog mythology is very, very dangerous to the gun owning community and I speak against it at every opportunity.
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

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  3. #12
    I keep saying it...Honey Badger people. Honey Badger!

  4. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Florida Panhandle
    Posts
    3,098
    This is what I had to say about the subject earlier and I stand by it.

    sheep dogs...
    anyone who ever put on a uniform for the military, law enforcement, fire or EMS. Those are the true sheep dogs. Anything else is just so much keyboard commando rhetoric and possibly stolen valor.
    I served in the USAF for over 20 years...I am a sheep dog (retired).
    My oldest son is a Marine...he is a sheepdog in ways you will never know.
    My middle son is a fireman...more of a sheepdog than you can imagine.
    My youngest wants to join the Army and fly helicopters as soon as he graduates...(future sheepdog but has not earned the title yet).
    If you ever put on a uniform in service of your fellow man you are a sheepdog. If you have not you are only an armed individual...it is not up for discussion.

    I agree that there are some real wannabe's and total mall ninjas out there. The problem is that it has only taken one or two turds in the punchbowl to really bring out the stink of the matter. Sheep dogs are not attractive animals, often they appear cute and cuddly but understand this...many different breeds of dog have been used as sheep dogs...from Border Collies to Rottweiler's (bread originally by the Roman Legions to both corral sheep and act as dogs of war) to the classic English sheepdog. The sheep dog does not give up on it's flock. The sheep dog sounds the alarm to bring the Shepard/farmer running in the event of trouble. The sheep dog more often than not will place itself in harm's way in carrying out it's duties. The sheep dog is often not well like by the flock but tolerated as needed.

    These are all attributes I want in my United States Military and in the Police, Fire and EMS first responders who have written a blank check to the citizens they serve payable for...up to and including their life. Yes I am defending the sheepdog mentality but only for those that are serving or have served. You see I come from a long line of sheepdogs. There are seven people with my last name on the Vietnam Memorial Wall. One is a Medal of Honor winner (1st LT Loren Hagen) and one is a POW/MIA (SSgt. Craig Hagen). All of my uncles served in either WWII or Korea. Some one with the last name of Hagen has been on active duty for every major and minor military skirmish since the Spanish American war. I have an older cousin who is a state trooper in Illinois. I have both uncles and older cousins who answer the call any time they are toned out and the trucks roll from their respective stations. This is the example I had set for me at an early age.
    You see in my family it is almost a right of passage to serve your fellow man in uniform in some manner. My uncles and cousins do not boast about what they do or what they have done. My son downplays his role but show up for duty every day rain or shine. My other son answers calls all hours of the day or night and has dealt with structure fires and vehicle accidents in ways most of you will ever know.

    If you want to be a sheep dog that is fine but be prepared to take some flack from the flock and for God sakes get the required training and put on a uniform and EARN IT!!! That's right EARN IT!!!

    Any claim that can't be backed up with a an active duty ID card, a form DD214, Department issued credentials or bunker gear is stolen valor in my opinion.
    Last edited by festus; 09-08-2011 at 09:06 PM. Reason: syntax
    FESTUS
    IN OMNIA PARATUS

  5. #14

    Simple...

    Simple Response... Semper Fi Brother.
    Semper Fi

  6. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Florida Panhandle
    Posts
    3,098
    Quote Originally Posted by ricbak View Post
    Simple Response... Semper Fi Brother.
    From an beat up old USAF crew chief to a Marine..."SEMPER FIDELIS"
    FESTUS
    IN OMNIA PARATUS

  7. #16
    And for his 35th post.... He opens THE can of worms! LOL

    There are too many good posts above to continue.. Gotta have some love for Festus. 100% Milspec! Localgirl always has a good comment on this topic too. There are others!

    Psalm 82:3-5

  8. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Providence Ranch View Post
    Ok, here's a good example of my point. Some obviously view sheepdogs as marking fenceposts that are not their own, establishing themselves as the self-proclaimed volunteer protectors of society.
    Just make sure to scoop up after your sheepdog if they decide to do number two as well.

  9. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by jg1967 View Post
    I will also predict that before long the badge bashers will start their usual diatribe about CCW badges, capes and underpants.
    CCW Headbands,
    CCW Sashes,
    CCW Masks (Because concealed means concealed),
    CCW Boots, similar to wraslin boots with the letters CCW on the side

  10. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by G50AE View Post
    CCW Headbands,
    CCW Sashes,
    CCW Masks (Because concealed means concealed),
    CCW Boots, similar to wraslin boots with the letters CCW on the side
    I knew I could rely on you. Old Faithful in a way.

  11. #20
    As I see the sheepdog role - three men are walking down the street side-by-side. One is carrying his gun openly, one has his gun concealed and one does not have a gun. What are the differences in their rights and responsibilities under the laws. There is no difference between the three but the sheepdog mentality of some people makes them think that if they have a gun then they are magically transformed into some super hero that is the protector of the public. A gun gives you no more rights or responsibilities than a baseball bat pocket knife or fingernail file. Some way a the wearing of a gun has equated the transformation of them into a sheepdog.

    Then for too many when they strap on a gun they start looking for an excuse to use their gun rather than a need to use it. I see too many posts about if someone is doing something can I shoot them, not should I shoot them or what should I do. Their first thought is can I legally shoot them and what reasoning can I use without thought to any alternative such as are they really trying to harm me or my family. They transform everything into, I am a sheepdog, I have a gun and finally, I get an exuse to use my gun.

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