Sheepdog attitude...pros vs. cons - Page 4
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Thread: Sheepdog attitude...pros vs. cons

  1. #31
    Another concern I have with maintaining a "Sheepdog" attitude (remember how Grossman defined that term - it had nothing to do with civilians per se - it had to do with a mindset that typified those who served, who stood on the walls) - is that it may distract one from the other important ways in which we can "defend" ourselves and our loved ones. That is, a "sheepdog" (again defaulting to Grossman), by its nature and by its mission, does not practice avoidance or de-escalation, it practices confrontation. For a civilian, such a strategy is likely to increase the danger to those you love who may be with you.

    Don't get me wrong; my natural reaction is not avoidance or de-escalation, to meet challenge, to engage the predator. I am not saying it is easy. But I also have to acknowledge that it might not always be best and for some of us, while we were trained to be sheepdogs at one point and we continue to train to defend ourselves with violent action, the harder task is knowing when to "not be there".
    Si vis pacem para bellum

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  3. #32
    After posting above I came across this and thought I would post it here for comment:

    Commentary by Evan Marshall
    Si vis pacem para bellum

  4. #33
    Ok, so.its becoming clear we have a few schools of thought here. But the one that scares ME the most is "yeah, I carry, but due to the potential for liability, sticky situations that might turn bad, no chance of being a hero, and all kinds of people labeling me a mall ninja, I will never ever even present weapon in public." Strange philosophy there.

  5. #34
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    A lot of the increased personal risk of litigation comes from the screwed up ideology of the liberal leftist leaning news and collegiate professorships that espouse this type of "Higher Learning" and a "I'm a victim" attitudes. It is unfortunate that the mindset has become I don't want to be sued.

    The crux of the matter is that the law colleges have not taught the rule of law for over 40 years. They have been teaching case law and precedent. This one action has been the single largest detractor from constitutional law and the rule of law. It has allowed court arguments to be based on opinions that should not and would not ever fly in a rule of law court.

    This does not stop me however from being a retired sheepdog. I have a God given right to my own personal safety, the safety of my family and the safety of those who cannot take care of themselves.

    According to the famous quote,
    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
    — Edmund Burke

    This is our legacy. we either crawl under a rock or we effect change daily by our actions and by our deeds...either way I do not want to stand in front of God on judgement day and not be able to explain why I allowed evil to claim another victim when I had the option of acting or doing nothing.

    I still stand by my statement of the sheep dog being those who wear or have worn the uniform to serve their fellow man. I also firmly believe that:
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
    — Robert A. Heinlein (Beyond This Horizon)

    I fully support armed citizenry, sheep dogs, and men of honor. I will not be found in the presence of thuggery, lawless abandon or men of ill will towards their fellow man. This is how I was raised. This is how I am raising my boys. I challenge you to effect change the same way. It does not have to be a lethal confrontation to always speak up for what is right and to put lawlessness and tyranny in it's place.

    Try these simple things
    1. find your voice...speak out against what is wrong and offer a solution to make things better.
    2. be aware of every thing that goes on around you...decide then and there what your next plan of action should be.
    3. be the polite but firm voice of reason when issues arise...do not change your answer to go with the flow, but explain your answer and sway others to what is morally correct not just what is politically expedient. (I know it sounds like #1 but trust me it is different)
    4. be prepared...it is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it
    5. be well educated...learn all you can concerning your local laws and codes and how they affect you. it will help in all aspects of the decision making process.
    FESTUS
    IN OMNIA PARATUS

  6. #35
    Amen, Festus. Amen.

  7. I'm a little surprised by what I'm reading here.

    I don't know whether I fall into your particular definition of "sheepdog" or not, but here are my thoughts.

    I CCW when I can, especially when I'm out with my kids or girlfriend.

    If I (think) I see something bad happening, I get involved. Most of the time my involvement is simply getting my kids to safety and then watching the situation (is that couple arguing going to turn physical? That guy seems out of place in this environment....etc) until it resolves. I've called the police several times for various things...most of the times it turned out to be nothing, but then again I've testified in court for what I've witnessed as well.

    I have also gotten involved to the point of simply walking by and making my presence known. Often times my presence (I'm a very large guy) can make someone straighten up, or clarify in my mind that it is a benign situation.

    I have also caught bad-guys (teenagers in this case) stealing things from cars, and I've chased them 2 blocks before physically catching one of them.

    I guess I am the type of guy who you would want around if you, your kids, or your wife was getting hassled by dirtballs, if your house was being broken into, or if your car was getting stolen. I'm even the type of guy who you would want to be around if your kids were at the high school football game and getting a little rowdy/rude with others...happened just Friday night and I told them to knock it off...they said "sorry sir" and then did. Yeah, I get involved. Why? Because I'm a man. I'm not a hero, and I'm not going to pull out my glock and start a body count (never even been close to pulling my CCW) unless my life, or someone elses life, is in imminent danger.

    But, if you, your family, or anyone else needs help and I can provide that help, then I'll be there. My CCW is just like the fire extinguisher, first aid kit, rope, flashlight, and tire jack in my truck - - - a tool that I can take care of my family, myself, and anyone else with.

    I guess I'm just a little disappointed with what I'm reading here because it seems that there are lot of guys out there who wouldn't get involved if my kids/girlfriend needed some help and I wasn't around.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Providence Ranch View Post
    Ok, so.its becoming clear we have a few schools of thought here. But the one that scares ME the most is "yeah, I carry, but due to the potential for liability, sticky situations that might turn bad, no chance of being a hero, and all kinds of people labeling me a mall ninja, I will never ever even present weapon in public." Strange philosophy there.
    There are some people that believe a gun will jump out of a holster all by itself and start killing innocent people with no human involvement whatsoever, and there are others who believe that the gun in the pocket will ward off evildoers all by itself with no human involvement whatsoever...
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boatswain2PA View Post
    I'm a little surprised by what I'm reading here.

    I don't know whether I fall into your particular definition of "sheepdog" or not, but here are my thoughts.

    I CCW when I can, especially when I'm out with my kids or girlfriend.

    If I (think) I see something bad happening, I get involved. Most of the time my involvement is simply getting my kids to safety and then watching the situation (is that couple arguing going to turn physical? That guy seems out of place in this environment....etc) until it resolves. I've called the police several times for various things...most of the times it turned out to be nothing, but then again I've testified in court for what I've witnessed as well.

    I have also gotten involved to the point of simply walking by and making my presence known. Often times my presence (I'm a very large guy) can make someone straighten up, or clarify in my mind that it is a benign situation.

    I have also caught bad-guys (teenagers in this case) stealing things from cars, and I've chased them 2 blocks before physically catching one of them.

    I guess I am the type of guy who you would want around if you, your kids, or your wife was getting hassled by dirtballs, if your house was being broken into, or if your car was getting stolen. I'm even the type of guy who you would want to be around if your kids were at the high school football game and getting a little rowdy/rude with others...happened just Friday night and I told them to knock it off...they said "sorry sir" and then did. Yeah, I get involved. Why? Because I'm a man. I'm not a hero, and I'm not going to pull out my glock and start a body count (never even been close to pulling my CCW) unless my life, or someone elses life, is in imminent danger.

    But, if you, your family, or anyone else needs help and I can provide that help, then I'll be there. My CCW is just like the fire extinguisher, first aid kit, rope, flashlight, and tire jack in my truck - - - a tool that I can take care of my family, myself, and anyone else with.

    I guess I'm just a little disappointed with what I'm reading here because it seems that there are lot of guys out there who wouldn't get involved if my kids/girlfriend needed some help and I wasn't around.
    You said a mouthful...
    but you are correct!
    FESTUS
    IN OMNIA PARATUS

  10. #39
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    Hey Providence: You comment about "nothing more than armed victims" is, IMO, probably true of many people who CC. If there was one thing I did before I even purchased a firearm it was to look in the mirror, measure my own resolve and appreciate the fact that I would not hesitate to use my firearm if there was an imminent threat. Not only would I use it, but I would not have any thoughts about my "psychological" feelings after ward, which have been discussed in some threads. If you have a doubt, odds are your firearm will cause your own demise. As far as sheep and sheepdogs, everyone does what everyone thinks is right. Once again, Providence, your comments were right on.

  11. I know this is an old post, but since I came across it and I just wanted to add my .2 cents.

    Sheepdog reference is only a teaching of responsibility.
    I have seen a couple post previous of those calling themselves "TRUE SHEEPDOG" because they have served the military - not to disrespect your service to our country, but you are truly wrong with a claim like that to think you are above any other citizen.
    Sheeps are the people who live their life unaware of the evil that surrounds them, while sheepdogs are those who lives among the sheeps but stand ready to protect their love ones should the wolves cross that fence.

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