Sheepdog attitude...pros vs. cons - Page 5
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Thread: Sheepdog attitude...pros vs. cons

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by the dark View Post
    Another concern I have with maintaining a "Sheepdog" attitude (remember how Grossman defined that term - it had nothing to do with civilians per se - it had to do with a mindset that typified those who served, who stood on the walls) - is that it may distract one from the other important ways in which we can "defend" ourselves and our loved ones. That is, a "sheepdog" (again defaulting to Grossman), by its nature and by its mission, does not practice avoidance or de-escalation, it practices confrontation. For a civilian, such a strategy is likely to increase the danger to those you love who may be with you.
    I know the speech in my mind it wasn't literal but a metaphor. If Grosman knows sheep and working dogs he knows the dog tirelessly stands guard, makes it presence know and only leads an offensive attack attack it absolutely necessary. The dog needs to thwart or stop the attack without stressing or scattering the flock. Well in real sheep tending anyway.
    “If I only had three words of advice, they would be, Tell the Truth. If got three more words, I'd add, all the time.” ~ Randy Pausch

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  3. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Providence Ranch View Post
    I'm new here, so please forgive me if this topic has been talked to death already...

    I've seen a few comments since I've been on board here that seem to put down the sheepdog mentality as somehow over-zealous, over-tough, or dangerous. I'm not sure I understand where this come from. I have 16 years of LEO experience, and have carried off duty for quite a while now. To me, the sheepdog mentality equates to "condition yellow," aware, alert, looking for trouble so you and your family might AVOID it, not plunge headlong into it. Stay ahead of the criminal mentality, and you stand your best chance of not becoming a victim. But nonetheless, there seem to be some here who equate the sheepdog with the would-be John Wayne, supercop without a badge. So my question, though maybe poorly explained, is this:

    What is the real definition of the sheepdog mentality here? And once we decide that, is it better to have that attitude than to remain armed sheep?
    The Definition of A Sheepdog on the board will be different for every person.
    Envision watching over the flock watching for trouble, and if trouble comes your way protect the flock. Everyone will put a different spin on it, but its not aggressive. Passive Protection is how I guess I would define it. Sheepdogs are good IMHO.
    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,
    the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

  4. #43
    I don't look as ccw as a "Sheepdog" more as a trained K9. Not to overwatch or herd but to have the option to protect when necessary. I personally have my ccw so that I have additional OPTIONS when in duress not so I can find opportunities to use it. Just because a situation arises doesn't mean I will be drawing my weapon it depends on the situation at the time. If I see a situation developing I will not be hanging around to see what happens I will be moving myself and my family to safety and calling 911 ( The official sheepdogs). I do not look at that choice as doing nothing I look at it as doing my duty to my family and not inflating a situation I have nothing to do with by becoming involved. As I said however it all depends on my assessment of the situation at the time and taking whatever action seems to be necessary and appropriate to first protect my family and second do my civic duty whether that be calling the authorities or taking action to stop the incident.

  5. #44
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  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Providence Ranch View Post
    I'm new here, so please forgive me if this topic has been talked to death already...

    I've seen a few comments since I've been on board here that seem to put down the sheepdog mentality as somehow over-zealous, over-tough, or dangerous. I'm not sure I understand where this come from. I have 16 years of LEO experience, and have carried off duty for quite a while now. To me, the sheepdog mentality equates to "condition yellow," aware, alert, looking for trouble so you and your family might AVOID it, not plunge headlong into it. Stay ahead of the criminal mentality, and you stand your best chance of not becoming a victim. But nonetheless, there seem to be some here who equate the sheepdog with the would-be John Wayne, supercop without a badge. So my question, though maybe poorly explained, is this:

    What is the real definition of the sheepdog mentality here? And once we decide that, is it better to have that attitude than to remain armed sheep?
    I like the term 'sheepdog'....but it seems to offend the sensibilities of some of our fellow forum members, therefore I have personally chosen to go by the term 'Badger'.
    Like a badger, I am a creature who goes about his daily business trying to avoid trouble and getting away from any percieved threats whenever necessary...
    But if trouble comes after me and then corners me with intent to do me harm...
    Watch Out...Because a cornered badger is no joke!
    Fascist's are Magicians...They can make our Property, our Freedom's & even our Children 'Disappear'.
    ~Outlaw~

  7. #46
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    I've read this thread twice now and still have no idea what the difference is between a sheepdog and the average armed citizen so I'm just gonna guess....

    A sheepdog will risk his life for others?

  8. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boatswain2PA View Post
    I'm a little surprised by what I'm reading here.

    I don't know whether I fall into your particular definition of "sheepdog" or not, but here are my thoughts.

    I CCW when I can, especially when I'm out with my kids or girlfriend.

    If I (think) I see something bad happening, I get involved. Most of the time my involvement is simply getting my kids to safety and then watching the situation (is that couple arguing going to turn physical? That guy seems out of place in this environment....etc) until it resolves. I've called the police several times for various things...most of the times it turned out to be nothing, but then again I've testified in court for what I've witnessed as well.

    I have also gotten involved to the point of simply walking by and making my presence known. Often times my presence (I'm a very large guy) can make someone straighten up, or clarify in my mind that it is a benign situation.

    I have also caught bad-guys (teenagers in this case) stealing things from cars, and I've chased them 2 blocks before physically catching one of them.

    I guess I am the type of guy who you would want around if you, your kids, or your wife was getting hassled by dirtballs, if your house was being broken into, or if your car was getting stolen. I'm even the type of guy who you would want to be around if your kids were at the high school football game and getting a little rowdy/rude with others...happened just Friday night and I told them to knock it off...they said "sorry sir" and then did. Yeah, I get involved. Why? Because I'm a man. I'm not a hero, and I'm not going to pull out my glock and start a body count (never even been close to pulling my CCW) unless my life, or someone elses life, is in imminent danger.

    But, if you, your family, or anyone else needs help and I can provide that help, then I'll be there. My CCW is just like the fire extinguisher, first aid kit, rope, flashlight, and tire jack in my truck - - - a tool that I can take care of my family, myself, and anyone else with.

    I guess I'm just a little disappointed with what I'm reading here because it seems that there are lot of guys out there who wouldn't get involved if my kids/girlfriend needed some help and I wasn't around.
    A lot to read on this forum... many schools of thought. Was reading through it all trying to think of how I interpret the right and responsibility of CCW, and how I'd describe myself as it pertains to such. Now I don't have to, because Boatswain2PA said it well.
    'I God, Woodrow, it's been quite a party, ain't it?

  9. #48
    For a time now I have thought about creating a Sheepdog logo that was very low profile and could move quietly through the CCW community. This way you would know who your brothers and sisters were. It may alert the bad guys and that is/was a slight concern.
    Have you ever seen the small stickers that family members of police officers put on their vehicles?
    I believe it is nation wide but it may just be here in Florida. There are 3 lines, top line is a dark blue, middle line is light blue, bottom line is dark blue. The sticker is small maybe 1 1/2 inch by 1 1/2 inch and is generally on the drivers side rear of the car.
    This little sticker alerts officers that they are dealing with another officers family. Generally when pulled over the driver of the vehicle will be asked who the family member is and where they serve.
    I feel that a small "Sheep Dog" logo may not be a bad thing. That is unless the officer approaching your vehicle is anti Carry.
    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,
    the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

  10. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by tricolordad View Post
    I've read this thread twice now and still have no idea what the difference is between a sheepdog and the average armed citizen so I'm just gonna guess....

    A sheepdog will risk his life for others?
    I guess that's the idea. I have very mixed feelings about this. I think it's commendable on principle but very very dangerous in practice. What I mean is you would have to be able to clearly be able to establish who is the attacker and if the attacked person did nothing to provoke the attack before you intervene. Unless you were there from the start that's just unlikely. Thoughts?
    Knarren und Zigarren!!!

  11. #50

    • For a time now I have thought about creating a Sheepdog logo that was very low profile and could move quietly through the CCW community. This way you would know who your brothers and sisters were. It may alert the bad guys and that is/was a slight concern.

    I don't post much, but I do think this is a very good idea



      • I've read this thread twice now and still have no idea what the difference is between a sheepdog and the average armed citizen so I'm just gonna guess....


    I have to agree, I have mixed feelings about this one too. Maybe Wiki should take a shot at it.

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