Which is better? Protect yourself/family or remove criminal from face of earth? - Page 5
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Thread: Which is better? Protect yourself/family or remove criminal from face of earth?

  1. Quote Originally Posted by localgirl View Post
    There's a complete fools list? I didn't know....
    http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-...tml#post227071

    We could add you, but you would have to open your shirt.... ;-)
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  2.   
  3. Rare and unique occurrence; perhaps, but I do remember hearing of this: Open Carry Man Robbed of His Gun-Watch Video Here

    Admittedly, it's hard to believe this guy is representative of OCers, nevertheless, there it is.

    "There's a complete fools list? I didn't know...."

    Circles within circles, wheels within wheels, & one never knows there is a higher (or in this case, lower) level until invited.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    Rare and unique occurrence; perhaps, but I do remember hearing of this: Open Carry Man Robbed of His Gun-Watch Video Here
    Open carry deters armed robbery in Kennesaw - Atlanta gun rights | Examiner.com

    Now we are even....
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.


  5. Touche! Touche!

  6. #45
    Of course I don't want to execute anybody! If I ever have to fire a shot in anger I sincerely hope it will be only to stop an imminent threat and no more. Anything else is beyond the range of what most States allow for self defense. We carry guns, we carry responsibility - to act as calm and rational as possible - we will be held to higher standards on this in court.

  7. #46
    There are a lot of issues to touch on with this and I have read all of the comments on all the pages and I decided to just start this post from the begginning. There are legal issues and practical issues clashing here and it is clear that not everyone has come to terms with their personal beliefs as they are reconciled by their state laws.

    First off, any firearm is a DEADLY weapon. In almost every set of state laws I've read, it is ILLEGAL, not just unpleasant, to use a firearm to threaten or wound in a way intended to be non-lethal. In other words, you cannot pull your gun with the intent to "shoo the bad guy away" or even "shoot the bad guy in the leg" because you don't want to kill them. As a matter of fact, if you sit on the witness stand and make this claim, you can be charged with violations of the criminal code for improper use of a firearm! I make a point of saying this fact first because you must understand that a gun is a tool like an axe or a hammer or a screwdriver, but this tool is intended to kill. If the BG is not committing an act for which his life cannot be taken, a gun cannot be employed as a method of defense. If this is your intent or you can not reconcile taking a human life, then choose a different tool other than a gun to defend yourself that you will use properly.

    One of the other components is the BG himself. Somehow, there has become a social responsibility for the victim (Us, the CCW carrier, family protector) to somehow determine the socio-eco-criminal condition of the BG in the moment that he decides to overcome his inherent knowledge of right and wrong and target us. We are somehow supposed to take into account if he is a big 17-year-old who has good grades and is carjacking us because he needs to feed his family or he's a 29-year-old career parolee who is a blight on society and has been since he was 14. But since the government social workers with their multitude of college degrees and unlimited federal money haven't been able to figure it out the entire time he's been growing up, how are we supposed to do it in less than half of a second with a gun pointed at our head? It is our job to evaluate the CRIME, not the criminal, and make the legal determination what LEVEL of force to apply to defend ourself. Any attempt to analyze the BG in the middle of a criminal act will be scorned by the judge and laughed at by the jury. This is why it is absolutely necessary that you understand Escalation of Force AND CAN DESCRIBE IT in a court of law if necessary, and also how it applies to your state law.

    One of the phrases I've always loved is, "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." As applied to this discussion, it means when all you have is a gun, you want to answer every threat with a bullet. This may seem harsh, but if you have no defensive options or cannot escalate your force except from empty hand to gun, then you did not leave your home (in the eyes of the law and the jury) with any other way to handle a situation. I have trained in martial arts, I carry a cane or walking stick, I almost always have mace on or near me, a small tactical flashlight can fit into a back pocket with a crenallated crown, a small collapsible baton, where legal or with permit, can ride in a belt holster on your weak side, and a tazer can be carried in purse, holster or car for six (6) levels of escalation or de-escalation of force, all of them NON-lethal but one! With any or all of these, it is much easier to convince a District Attorney, Attorney General or jury that you were justified in pulling your gun when you did. You had options, you even tried Mace, or you hit him twice with the baton and he kept coming and then pulled a knife. You only pulled the gun when HE (the BG) escalated it to deadly. This is like the roofer or electrician that goes to work with a tool belt - you'd never see one of them go up on a building with just a hammer - he knows he's going to need more tools than just one to hit nails. He knows if he uses a hammer for every problem, he's going to make bigger problems than he already has...take a lesson.

    Finally, I never have believed in the deterrence value of a visible firearm. A locksmith once told me that, "Locks keep honest people out - a dishonest person will always get by them." I believe the same is true with a visible gun - a BG looking for easy targets will leave you alone, but a banger or a group of parolees will make a game to set you up and they will put you on the ground, take the gun off of you and then execute you with your own gun or hold you down and beat and bleed you slowly for fun, depending on sadistic leanings of their leader. There is a reason prisons keep all of the guards with weapons in the tower and on the fence (NOWHERE near a prisoner) and guards in with the prisoners are not allowed ANY weapon. A large enough unarmed group (Flash Mob?) can rush, pin, crush, kill and be gone before anyone knows what happened. CC of my gun has nothing to do with an "Executioner Fetish," but a sincere desire to keep what is supposed to be secret, secret. I want to decide when, where, and IF, the gun is drawn, not the BG.
    Edmund Burke: “The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.” – 1784 speech. Taken from Founding Fathers Notes. "The unarmed man is not just defenseless -- he is also contemptible." Machiavelli

  8. #47
    Is qilvin related to POSLEO in canton?

    Or just a mall-ninja-wannabee-pretend-internet-big-guy-leo?

    -Doc

  9. #48
    Imenent danger! does anyone understand that?

    Don't draw your firearm unless you are willing to kill another person!

    Oklahoma laws make it simple! Out of sight Out of mind.

    Self Protection!

    If you see a pile of dog poop in your yard don't step in it if you don't want the smell on you

    It is far easier to avoid trouble then to explain what happened.

    Carrying a firearm is a responsibility not a game.
    Crime has no boundaries - Carry Safe!

  10. Quote Originally Posted by TekGreg View Post
    Finally, I never have believed in the deterrence value of a visible firearm. A locksmith once told me that, "Locks keep honest people out - a dishonest person will always get by them." I believe the same is true with a visible gun - a BG looking for easy targets will leave you alone, but a banger or a group of parolees will make a game to set you up and they will put you on the ground, take the gun off of you and then execute you with your own gun or hold you down and beat and bleed you slowly for fun, depending on sadistic leanings of their leader. There is a reason prisons keep all of the guards with weapons in the tower and on the fence (NOWHERE near a prisoner) and guards in with the prisoners are not allowed ANY weapon. A large enough unarmed group (Flash Mob?) can rush, pin, crush, kill and be gone before anyone knows what happened. CC of my gun has nothing to do with an "Executioner Fetish," but a sincere desire to keep what is supposed to be secret, secret. I want to decide when, where, and IF, the gun is drawn, not the BG.
    Then you will be able to provide real life examples where your theory has been proven true?

    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    St. Louis County, MO
    Posts
    3,445
    To kill another human being just because you know he is a BG is not my reason for carrying my gun. I go out with my family and they know I carry, like they do. But on many occasions, I also go out with my friend who is opposed to me carrying. She doesn't know that I do. I know my family is safe with me around just as i feel the same way when they are around me, but my friend and her son who has downs syndrome acts tough but wouldn't be able to defend themselves and us should SHTF in one our outings, so I take it upon myself (without her knowledge) for me to be armed so that I can feel safe to be with them.
    "Don't let the door hit ya where the dawg shudda bit ya!"
    G'day and Glock
    GATEWAY SWIFT WING ST. LOUIS

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