House considers bill for for all states to recognize your home state permit - Page 11
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Thread: House considers bill for for all states to recognize your home state permit

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaxMentis View Post
    With the 14th amendment in place (whether you like it or, like me, dislike it) and the "Full Faith and Credit" (Art4, Sec1)clause solidly in place, I just don't see the infringement here.

    If it were a bill creating a national CHL, I would agree with you...but this bill would just reinforce full faith and credit (which is the basis under which such state acts such as driver licensing and marriages are recognized by other states) by specifying that 2nd amendment rights (such as they are at this point) must also be included.


    The law should not even be needed if the SCOTUS had any kind of real consistency in interpretation.
    Well thought out and articulated post.... But I still have to disagree with the entire premise on the grounds that any legislation that has ANYTHING to do with firearms is UnConstitutional.


    Those in the "gun community" have no business supporting anything other than full repeal of all firearms laws and regulations, anything else is a compromise, and that is how we got to the situation we find ourselves in now... Yet here we are, divided, with most of us fighting for further infringements, as if it is going to help...


    Insanity = doing the same thing again (compromising) and expecting different results..... The "system" is broken, has been for years, yet there are those on here who still fight for it, amazing..

    Oh well, I have repeated myself many times here and still not very many people actually listened, (not that I am one worth listening to) Do what you want, just dont go trying to say you represent the ENTIRE "gun" community with your "views" because you dont....

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  3. #102
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    Maybe in Oregon a chl can carry in a school zone, and in Texas I can also, problem per NRA is no portion of this bill allows me with my Texas and AZ license to carry in a federal school zone in any other state but the two in which I have a license. I can CC in 33 states, if I enter a school zone in any other than Texas or AZ, I am in violation of federal law, again this was per NRA, they claim they are trying to get this corrected, but 822 in no way clears the problem.

    If you discharge a weapon in a gun free school zone even in protection of life you are looking at serious problems, simple answer would be to abolish zones, stupid anyway the laws protected no one at Columbine just gave the BG's a free fire zone.

  4. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare45 View Post
    Olsparky tell me where 822 vacates federal gun free school zones. In a recent talk with the NRA, brouht this up and the answer was it does not protect you from federal prosecution.
    The federal school zone applies only to those that do not have a permit to carry. States may allow permit holders to be exempt from the rule, and the way this proposed law is written is that any permit from any state may carry in a school zone if the state where the person currently is allows permit holders exemption from the federal school zone.

    In Utah this year the legislature tried to reduce the zone from 1000 feet to as little as 50 feet. They found out that they have no authority to reduce the federal mandate, but because public schools are state owned and not federal the state can determine the exemptions.

    I hope that helps.

  5. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    Let me add one thing to this that I have failed to mention... It would be nice if we didnt have to worry if we were breaking some "law" when we cross any State line while armed...... That would be wonderful. but the reality is we cannot.....

    Those who are working to change this have their heart in the right place, dont get me wrong.... But they have it in their head that all those UnConstitutional "laws" are valid..... that is the wrong place to start, and is not a valid/strong foundation at all...

    You need to get down to the root (foundation) to be able to do things correctly, otherwise you are just wasting time and giving your approval of those false "laws" and defeating yourself before you even begin...

    There is US Supreme Court precedent that ANY "Law" that does not line up (infringes) upon the Constitution and BOR is invalid on its face, and we dont have to follow it... So, WHY are you FIGHTING FOR something that only FURTHER validates this so-called laws power when it has none to begin with?


    *steps off soapbox and goes home*


    If you dont understand it by now, I fear that you never will... and it proves that we are further down the road to tyranny than even I thought possible........ because those that think they are helping are actually hurting our cause...... and refuse to see /acknowledge that truth.
    Of course the laws are valid in that they are not going to be thrown out and they are going to be enforced. It is absurd to ram your head into that brick wall. The facts are what they are. The laws are unconstitutional but they are not going to go away.

    You can yell and scream and carry on but the laws are not going to be thrown out. The reasonable solution is to start getting incremental laws passed to take our rights and the Constitution back.
    Maybejim

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  6. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    Well thought out and articulated post.... But I still have to disagree with the entire premise on the grounds that any legislation that has ANYTHING to do with firearms is UnConstitutional.

    Those in the "gun community" have no business supporting anything other than full repeal of all firearms laws and regulations
    Like what? Would you include serial number requirements there? That is, you wouldn't require any manufacturer to put serial numbers on firearms? Be kind of hard to prove that's your gun then, wouldn't it?

    "All firearms laws" is a pretty big brush, and even if you were somehow able to do that, what about the private property rights of all those businesses that say you can't bring your gun in here?

    Haven't seen you weigh in on this thread yet: http://www.usacarry.com/forums/firea...y-firearm.html I assume you're fine with allowing felons to regain their RKBA immediately?

    What about carrying while drinking? Should that be legal? Should drinking and driving then be legal? I'd say a reasonable person has to have those laws agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    Do what you want, just don't go trying to say you represent the ENTIRE "gun" community with your "views" because you don't.
    Neither do you. :)
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  7. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    Well thought out and articulated post.... But I still have to disagree with the entire premise on the grounds that any legislation that has ANYTHING to do with firearms is UnConstitutional.


    Those in the "gun community" have no business supporting anything other than full repeal of all firearms laws and regulations, anything else is a compromise, and that is how we got to the situation we find ourselves in now... Yet here we are, divided, with most of us fighting for further infringements, as if it is going to help...


    Insanity = doing the same thing again (compromising) and expecting different results..... The "system" is broken, has been for years, yet there are those on here who still fight for it, amazing..

    Oh well, I have repeated myself many times here and still not very many people actually listened, (not that I am one worth listening to) Do what you want, just dont go trying to say you represent the ENTIRE "gun" community with your "views" because you dont....
    I actually do hear what you are saying...and even agree with you on the base level.

    However, at this point in time, I am willing to compromise...as long as the compromise is in how far we are going toward the right end of the spectrum. We got here by making defensive compromises that merely limited how much further we would get from liberty.

    I am personally not ready for armed rebellion...and neither is a sufficient number of my fellow citizens. Absent that armed rebellion, compromises that make us freer than we have allowed ourselves to become are the way to make progress. We got here a step at a time...the only way back without shooting people that I see is taking steps in the other direction.

    Pax

  8. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by cmhbob View Post
    Like what? Would you include serial number requirements there? That is, you wouldn't require any manufacturer to put serial numbers on firearms? Be kind of hard to prove that's your gun then, wouldn't it?

    "All firearms laws" is a pretty big brush, and even if you were somehow able to do that, what about the private property rights of all those businesses that say you can't bring your gun in here?

    Haven't seen you weigh in on this thread yet: http://www.usacarry.com/forums/firea...y-firearm.html I assume you're fine with allowing felons to regain their RKBA immediately?

    What about carrying while drinking? Should that be legal? Should drinking and driving then be legal? I'd say a reasonable person has to have those laws agree.

    Neither do you. :)
    You know...I just have a problem with outlawing acts that might hurt someone.

    No, I don't think there should be laws against carrying while impaired...or driving while impaired. If doing so contributes to you actually hurting someone...or someone's property, then I would punish as if you had done it consciously and willfully...kill someone driving drunk and I am for killin ya right back.

    As far as gun rights, I have no patience with releasing "marginally safe" felons into society unsupervised. If we believe that person is still a danger to those around him, why are we letting him out? Besides...the only people that the law prevents from having guns are the ones who choose to start obeying the law...the ones that actually can be trusted. I have seen a lot of criminals...a lot of violent criminals...and some of them I don't want to have a gun. But I don't want them out among regular people, especially without supervision. I'd prefer they be denied such niceties as food, water and oxygen.

    If a person cannot be trusted in society with a gun, they can't be trusted in society period. At best they should be wearing a tracking device.

    Why should there be a law saying that guns must have serial numbers? To make it easier to get my gun back if it is stolen? What compelling public interest is there? Oh, the feds, between taxation and interstate commerce can justify making up such a law...and even registration...but let's not even pay lip service to the idea that it is in our best interests.

    Overall, I think what should happen is that the liberals get manuevered by their sacred 14th amendment into supporting the fact that, since citizens of 3 states enjoy the privilege of freely bearing arms and immunity from government interference in that right, all other citizens of the USA must enjoy those rights and immunities.

    But then, I've probably had just about an ounce too much scotch...

  9. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by maybejim View Post
    Of course the laws are valid in that they are not going to be thrown out and they are going to be enforced. It is absurd to ram your head into that brick wall. The facts are what they are. The laws are unconstitutional but they are not going to go away.

    You can yell and scream and carry on but the laws are not going to be thrown out. The reasonable solution is to start getting incremental laws passed to take our rights and the Constitution back.
    I think you have missed or not thought of another aspect to this... you can simply refuse to obey those UnConstitutional "laws" themselves.....

    If enough of us do so... then the "law" will no longer have any "teeth"...

    I am not advocating flaunting it in the face of some thug with a badge... but standing up for what is right has always had some risks involved.....

    I have made a decision that may get me killed one day... Not that I want that to happen, but I will NOT tolerate my "Rights" to be stepped on, period.......

    In today's court system, where 99% of the time the "state" wins.... What other choice have they left those who will not back up one more inch? Think about it.... If I know that I will lose even before they attempt to arrest me.......... What other choices do I have? Not many.....

    Yet I am actually willing to die for my beliefs... are they?

    Read my signature if you are having trouble following along.... (but please do not think I am advocating anything like murder, as I am explicitly not.. Murder is always wrong, even when you have a badge on your chest...self-defense on the other hand is entirely "lawful" even if THEY think it isnt...)

    If there is ANY hope for this country, many more will have to make this type of decision for themselves.... I just happen to be one that has made it before you have... It is PAST time for real Americans to "man up"

  10. #109
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    cmhbob, I promise you that you (I am assuming here what I think your views are, based on what you wrote) will NOT like what I have to say about "property rights"........ Maybe you should do a search here on "business property" to see what my views are.....

    A little primer for ya: My personal (Constitutional/BOR) Rights do NOT end or disappear on "your" physical property, end of discussion.......

    PS... I have now posted in the "should a felon..." thread, enjoy.........

  11. #110
    Exactly how does this bill violate the 10th amendment? Maybe you should read exactly what that amendment says.

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