Robbery Scenario - Page 5
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Thread: Robbery Scenario

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Phillip Gain View Post
    Debate over. DesertEagle on my ignore list. I have no patience for mouthy personal attacks.
    And vice versa.

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  3. #42
    Well "Gentlemen", THIS has proven to be MOST interesting. (Sarcasm intended.)

    GG
    Fanatics of any sort are dangerous! -GG-
    Which part of "... shall NOT be infringed..." confuses you?
    Well now, aren't WE a pair, Raggedy Man? (Thunderdome)

  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuts40 View Post
    I'm assuming you are CC then with a 'sweepable' cover garmet such as an open shirt or vest rather than a T-shirt or buttoned/zipped jacket that would require two hands to pull up (for certainty of bringing up garment above gun) if you wallet left and .45 right. If you OC then certainly that would become the very quick focal point for the BG... Any thoughts from anyone? (OTHER than turning this into yet another OC vs. CC nightmare, no pun there, Nightmare)

    As for me, I CC with most of my draw/fire practice using both hands to pull up garment. I'm thinking I need to practice more with sweeping as well...
    Sweeping a concealment garment and lifting a shirt require two different techniques, but both are part of the (access/chest) step in the drawstroke.

    For an unbuttoned jacket or vest... some people will carry car keys or an object with weight in the strong side jacket pocket to aid in sweeping the garment. For a right-handed shooter the strong hand sweeps the unzipped jacket using the back-side of the thumb. The left-hand moves to the chest. The strong hand then grips the gun (step: grip/chest).

    For a shirt, sweatshirt or buttoned jacket... the access/chest step requires using the weak-hand to pull the garment up and away from the gun until it reaches the chest. The strong hand moves to the grip/chest step at the same time.

    The purpose of the "chest" step is avoid an unintentional shot to your own hand during the access, grip, pull and rotate steps. Once the gun is rotated the weak hand will access the gun in the "join" step in front of the sternum. This type of drawstroke provides the ability to fire immediately after clearing the holster and rotating the gun into position; parallel to the ground, against the ribs under the side of the breast.

    Those who OC don't generally need the "access" step unless they happen to be wearing a coat.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by KCD1974 View Post
    Why carry two wallets if you plan to shoot him anyway? Throw you normal wallet, shoot and retrieve? Also, I agree he may shoot you after you comply, but why not just shoot you first and remove the wallet(s) off your carcass? That seems much easier....perhaps that would draw too much attention and not give him time to escape before removing your goods?
    In most cases you give up the wallet. Unless there is a lot of money at stake this is the cheaper option. Once you shoot it will probably ruin your life. The cost of both a criminal and civil defense must be considered. Also, it is extremely difficult to beat a drawn gun. If the perp has only a knife I recommend draw and retreat.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    I will respectfully disagree. I commented on this scenario, there for it's possible. Whether or not that's what will happen, well I agree I don't know, but i'm better prepared training my mind with these hypothetical situations than if I did not think about them.

    When our fight or flight kicks in, we are going to take in such a massive amount of information, most of us won't know what to do with it. But isn't that the purpose of training? To get better at absorbing the information and transferring it to reaction?

    I don't train thinking, "I am doing this, but when shtf I probably will do something else." I train because when shtf that is where I will revert back to.
    Yes, training the mind to react in situations is an important component of defensive training... just as important as live-fire exercises.

    I was speaking about the generic "what-if" scenarios. Talking through the solutions is impractical. You must "see" your environment. That's why it is a good practice to visualize scenarios in real-time, not on a chat board where people have the obvious advantage of time to think and the disadvantage of not seeing the environment in which the scenario plays out. Violent attacks may occur without warning and be over in a second or two. Life and death is determined in hundreths of a second.

    A good drill... while walking through the mall one might consider what happens if an active shooter should appear. Such visualizations should include a fast escalation to RED. You are then presenting yourself with a real scenario where one can see the cover, escape routes and number of people around you. Much more practical.

    Using visualization as a training tool is taught in both "NRA PPITH" and "NRA PPOTH."
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  7. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by walt629 View Post
    Would this work?

    From a tactical perspective Shatner is breaking the perp's OODA loop. Studies in behavioral science suggest that perps expect (through experience) a certain set of responses from their victims. When the victim doesn't respond as anticipated it causes him to change gears. Therein lies opportunity.

    A great example can be illustrated in the standard parking-lot carjacking. Perp pops up (hey, it's a popping perp) and eemands the car. Within a split second the woman throws her keys North as far as she can and begins to run South as fast as she can, screaming. Perp hesitates and more than likely runs West as fast as he can. Victim didn't hand over the keys. She didn't allow herself to be forced into the car. In any busy area he's left with no choice but to flee. OODA loop broken.

    Posters shouldn't insult and bash each other over these topics. No one should need an ignore list. Many times there is no right or wrong in a response. Some posters have extensive training, some have had none, while some have been victims of violent crime. You should all look to each post for ANYTHING that may help you and leave what you don't agree with. Just sayin.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  8. Beautiful post !!!!

  9. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    From a tactical perspective Shatner is breaking the perp's OODA loop. Studies in behavioral science suggest that perps expect (through experience) a certain set of responses from their victims. When the victim doesn't respond as anticipated it causes him to change gears. Therein lies opportunity.

    A great example can be illustrated in the standard parking-lot carjacking. Perp pops up (hey, it's a popping perp) and eemands the car. Within a split second the woman throws her keys North as far as she can and begins to run South as fast as she can, screaming. Perp hesitates and more than likely runs West as fast as he can. Victim didn't hand over the keys. She didn't allow herself to be forced into the car. In any busy area he's left with no choice but to flee. OODA loop broken.

    Posters shouldn't insult and bash each other over these topics. No one should need an ignore list. Many times there is no right or wrong in a response. Some posters have extensive training, some have had none, while some have been victims of violent crime. You should all look to each post for ANYTHING that may help you and leave what you don't agree with. Just sayin.
    Forgive me. I'm one of the uneducated when it comes to the acronyms used. What is OODA?

    It has been my experience that some people post questions here to justify their own contentions rather than look for an open forum that will deliver opinions and information that may or may not support the position they have already formulated on any particular question.

    I was taught "don't ask the question of others if you don't want their answers." When you do ask a question and get an answer that you weren't expecting, take time to examine the answer and ask more questions of the one who gave the answer you question. But then, that IS considered a debate.

    Things that make you go "Hmmm.." lead to questions. Questions lead to varying answers. Varying answers lead to debate. Debate leads to a consensus of agreement.

    IMHO of course.
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  10. #49

  11. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle View Post
    Lets say you are walking down the street with your wife or husband. As you pass an alley, a large man steps out in front of you and demands you give him your wallet and jewelry. He has a pistol in his right hand and is pointing it at you sideways while motioning with his left hand to cough up your wallet or he will kill you. Nobody else is in the immediate area. You have your loaded gun in a IWB holster at 5 O'Clock.
    Now here is where I want your input. Are you going to:
    1. Instantly start running away and assume your wife is planning on doing the same.
    2. Give him your wallet, take off you watch, give him your wife's purse, and assume he will let you go?
    3. Attempt to pull your gun and defend yourself even though the bad guy has his weapon already pointed at you.

    Here is the problem: You dont know if he is planning on killing his witnesses (you and your wife) after robbing them. If you comply with his requests, you become a victim and your concealed carry gun you train with every month becomes a worthless hunk of junk in your waistband. If he doesnt kill you, the police probably wont spend too much time trying to get your wallet back for you. However, if you try using your gun, you risk your wife and yourself getting shot before you can sucsessfully draw a line and fire. Then again, if you do nothing, what does that say to your wife who expects you to be defending her with that pistol you had to convince her is important to carry. And what if you dont try pulling your gun and he takes your wallet, and fires a round that hits your wife as he runs off.
    Your thoughts?
    I think I would probably pull out my wallet, drop it on the ground or toss it to him to distract him as he tries to catch it, and run away, although its tough because you cant secretly tell your wife to run at the same time as you. Or of course I could try pulling my gun out while he is distracted.
    I'd drop the wallet and run. My wife knows I will drop the wallet and run because we often talk about scenarios and what we will do if X happens. It's important to have a plan and have all your family members up to speed on the plan

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