Denny's "no guns allowed" signs seem to be working. - Page 10
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Thread: Denny's "no guns allowed" signs seem to be working.

  1. #91
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    Oro Valley, Arizona
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    119
    Terminal starvation is the only thing that would make me even cosider eating at a Denny's.

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  3. So which is it, Gunny? You are making two completely contradictory statements quoted below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grognard Gunny View Post
    Maybe just demonstrating common sence. Descretion being the better part of valor.

    One thing one learns in the military quickly, many "heroes" collect their accolades ex post facto. (It IS preferred to be able to collect one's retirement check, ya know.)

    It's a matter of carrying for the protection of me and mine. They have people they pay good money to to worry about the rest of the society. (The REAL sheepdogs.)

    Exception: If it should happen that in the act of protecting me and mine, others nearby should reap the benefits of my efforts.... all well and fine. Rest assured that it would not be the primary reason why I would act.

    You need to retire for a few years, Nav. If for no other reason than to get this "White Knight" syndrome burned out of you. It can get you killed! (I thought self defense was the prime directive here?) LOL!

    GG
    Which seems to indicate your hesitation to act in a situation such as the Dennys robbery.

    Quote Originally Posted by santa View Post
    'sometimes you have to do unto others before they do unto you'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grognard Gunny View Post
    Which IS, bottom line, the basis of all self defense. Precisely why we carry.

    GG
    This seems to indicate that you believe when presented with a threat, the defender should start an actual attack first, "precisely why we carry." Which is it?!? Make up your mind, Gunny.

    I do not, and cannot, understand how anyone can say that armed criminals, in this case multiple armed criminals, in the same room as they are in are not a threat to them. You have no idea at what point in time the armed criminals may turn their attention to you and either take you as a hostage or shoot you either because everything has gone to crap and they want no witnesses or because something pushed them over the edge and they go psycho. Me....I'm going to attempt to eliminate that possibility before it comes to a reality.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  4. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by PatAz View Post
    Terminal starvation is the only thing that would make me even cosider eating at a Denny's.
    Since you brought up that angle..... true as stated.

    GG
    Fanatics of any sort are dangerous! -GG-
    Which part of "... shall NOT be infringed..." confuses you?
    Well now, aren't WE a pair, Raggedy Man? (Thunderdome)

  5. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    So which is it, Gunny? You are making two completely contradictory statements quoted below.



    Which seems to indicate your hesitation to act in a situation such as the Dennys robbery.



    This seems to indicate that you believe when presented with a threat, the defender should start an actual attack first, "precisely why we carry." Which is it?!? Make up your mind, Gunny.

    I do not, and cannot, understand how anyone can say that armed criminals, in this case multiple armed criminals, in the same room as they are in are not a threat to them. You have no idea at what point in time the armed criminals may turn their attention to you and either take you as a hostage or shoot you either because everything has gone to crap and they want no witnesses or because something pushed them over the edge and they go psycho. Me....I'm going to attempt to eliminate that possibility before it comes to a reality.
    Nonsence. I made two completely generic statements as to what would and what would NOT cause me to spring into action. Apparently, to you, this is case for dichotomous thinking. While I, on the other hand, consider it an ongoing estimate of the situation at hand.

    Even those "contingencies" may be taken completely out of my hands by the actions at the onset or during the commission of the activities of the BGs. Thus immediate reaction drills would come to fore rather than considered analysis. (IRDs are good for no other resort situations, but are prone to errors in execution. Mainly because they cannot take into consideration all contingencies of a given situation. Better a good, considered plan, IMHO.)

    I stated the terms by which I would become a "shooter". The Law prescribes most of that thought process, "clear and present danger to life and limb of me and mine", would be a good summary. If given the option, again completely out of my hands as to whether one or more even exists, I would prefer to keep as many open as long as possible.

    But that's just me, a thinker rather than a berserker.

    In addition, the observation as to "why we carry" is directly linked to the objective of self defense of me and mine in situations (there's that pesky "thinking" bit again) so requiring. Obviously, your trigger point as to what constitutes "necessary action" varies considerably from mine.

    As for doing unto others..... it's merely a statement of fact in action. If they "do" first.... all else is moot.

    Hey, no skin off my nose. It's nothing more than a difference of opinion. Mine typically tend to blend in shades of grey rather than the absolutes of black and whites.

    BOTH of us would be remiss (and a bit obnoxious) to suggest one's mental set as superior to the other's. Like all aspects of life, one has to do what one "feels" is right for them. (Within the bounds of Law, of course.)

    Perhaps we can discuss this again at one of the pubs I hope exists "on the other side". If not..... not.

    GG
    Fanatics of any sort are dangerous! -GG-
    Which part of "... shall NOT be infringed..." confuses you?
    Well now, aren't WE a pair, Raggedy Man? (Thunderdome)

  6. #95
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    Santa Fe Area, New Mexico
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    3,487
    Nice dissertation GG
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." --author and philosopher Ayn Rand (1905-1982)

  7. #96
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    Aug 2009
    Location
    washington state
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    An armed man holding up a store is a clear and immediate threat. I have had to take my gun out of its holster three times acting in self defence. This post isnt the place to give all the details, but one of the times involved a man with a tire iron that one minute would be rational the next a lunatic. He was high on something the police later told me. Many hold-ups involve drugs and an addict is NOT the most rational person and there is no way to tell for sure whats in the BG's mind(or whats left of it). In this case(Dennys) the threat was clear and immediate. The BG(s) had guns out and if thats not threatening what is? The only issue is, can I get a good clean shot(s) that will stop the threat?

  8. #97
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    Nov 2011
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    Massachusetts
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    Quote Originally Posted by santa View Post
    An armed man holding up a store is a clear and immediate threat. I have had to take my gun out of its holster three times acting in self defence. This post isnt the place to give all the details, but one of the times involved a man with a tire iron that one minute would be rational the next a lunatic. He was high on something the police later told me. Many hold-ups involve drugs and an addict is NOT the most rational person and there is no way to tell for sure whats in the BG's mind(or whats left of it). In this case(Dennys) the threat was clear and immediate. The BG(s) had guns out and if thats not threatening what is? The only issue is, can I get a good clean shot(s) that will stop the threat?

    Are you trying to compare someone coming at you with a tire iron to someone robbing a Denny's?

  9. #98
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    Aug 2009
    Location
    washington state
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    817
    The comparison is that if you are shot with a gun you could die. If you were hit by a tire iron you could die. In both situations there is a threat to your life and in this State you have the right to defend yourself. People have committed robbery using all sorts of weapons including guns,knives, pepper spray, toy guns and many other things including verbal threats. While I am not familar with the laws in Massachusetts, the law in Washington State is clear regarding the use of deadly force and the use of a gun. I would suggest reading an earlier post by NavyLCDR on this thread where he quotes the exact chapter and verse of Washington State law on this subject. When a man(woman)is threatening me with a gun or a man(woman)is threatening me with a tire iron my life(or others)is in jepardy and I will act to stop the threat.

  10. #99
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    Massachusetts
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    Quote Originally Posted by santa View Post
    The comparison is that if you are shot with a gun you could die. If you were hit by a tire iron you could die. In both situations there is a threat to your life and in this State you have the right to defend yourself. People have committed robbery using all sorts of weapons including guns,knives, pepper spray, toy guns and many other things including verbal threats. While I am not familar with the laws in Massachusetts, the law in Washington State is clear regarding the use of deadly force and the use of a gun. I would suggest reading an earlier post by NavyLCDR on this thread where he quotes the exact chapter and verse of Washington State law on this subject. When a man(woman)is threatening me with a gun or a man(woman)is threatening me with a tire iron my life(or others)is in jepardy and I will act to stop the threat.
    Why would I read the laws for Washington if I don't live there and have no plans to go there? That's a pretty silly suggestion. A man walks into Denny's and goes up to the cash register with a gun and demands cash. How is he threatening you with a gun? If a man comes at you with a tire iron that's a completely different scenario and the way it should behandled is completely different. In the case of Denny's there were two BGs. You're putting the life of the cashier and everyone in the building in jeapordy rather than helping if you pull your gun. If their intention is to take the money and run, which is more often than not the case, you just started a fire fight for nothing. Shoot first and ask questions later works well in movies but in real life.....not so much.

  11. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    I do not, and cannot, understand how anyone can say that armed criminals, in this case multiple armed criminals, in the same room as they are in are not a threat to them. You have no idea at what point in time the armed criminals may turn their attention to you and either take you as a hostage or shoot you either because everything has gone to crap and they want no witnesses or because something pushed them over the edge and they go psycho. Me....I'm going to attempt to eliminate that possibility before it comes to a reality.
    Well then...what if you start shooting at them and they start shooting back as they are trying to leave the premises. Unfortunately, my family and I are in their line of fire. My best option might be to shoot you so they can leave and thereby eliminate the risk for my family.

    You cool with that?

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