Denny's "no guns allowed" signs seem to be working. - Page 7
Page 7 of 13 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 125

Thread: Denny's "no guns allowed" signs seem to be working.

  1. Quote Originally Posted by Rich_S View Post
    The gun owner here wasn't able to stop the BGs. They shot it out with him and got away. I suppose you're a better shot though- right? But of course you are. BTW: why are you asking me how it would work out if I told the bad guy robbery was illegal or handed him my weapon? Where did I suggest that would be a good idea? Please quote that post.
    The goal is to stop the criminal act. That can occur in two ways: physically incapacitating the criminal beyond the capability to continue the criminal act, or taking action to cause the criminal to flee. If during the attempt to incapicitate the criminal, the criminal flees because of your attempts, you have accomplished your goal.

    To wait and see how things turn out is not defending yourself. It is trusting in fate to smile down upon you and allow you to escape unharmed. I don't carry a gun because I trust fate, I carry a gun to defend myself. If I was going to trust in fate, I would simply carry $400 in my pocket to give to a criminal to get him to leave, rather than carry a $400 gun and ammo.

    In the situation at Denny's, I and my family would be under attack the minute the criminals walked through the door with masks on their heads and guns in their hands. They clearly were not there to order a stack of pancakes to go.

    And here's another interesting statistic: you have a better chance of surviving a shootout between criminals and citizens then you do surviving a shootout between criminals and the police:

    Fact: 11% of police shootings kill an innocent person - about 2% of shootings by citizens
    kill an innocent person.

    Fact: "In actual shootings, citizens do far better than law enforcement on hit potential.
    They hit their targets and they don't hit other people. I wish I could say the same for cops.
    We train more, they do better." - Sheriff Greg White, Cole County, Missouri, Guns to be allowed on campus?, KRCG News, July 31, 2009
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  2.   
  3. #62
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    597
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    The goal is to stop the criminal act. That can occur in two ways: physically incapacitating the criminal beyond the capability to continue the criminal act, or taking action to cause the criminal to flee. If during the attempt to incapicitate the criminal, the criminal flees because of your attempts, you have accomplished your goal.

    To wait and see how things turn out is not defending yourself. It is trusting in fate to smile down upon you and allow you to escape unharmed. I don't carry a gun because I trust fate, I carry a gun to defend myself. If I was going to trust in fate, I would simply carry $400 in my pocket to give to a criminal to get him to leave, rather than carry a $400 gun and ammo.

    In the situation at Denny's, I and my family would be under attack the minute the criminals walked through the door with masks on their heads and guns in their hands. They clearly were not there to order a stack of pancakes to go.

    And here's another interesting statistic: you have a better chance of surviving a shootout between criminals and citizens then you do surviving a shootout between criminals and the police:

    Fact: 11% of police shootings kill an innocent person - about 2% of shootings by citizens
    kill an innocent person.

    Fact: "In actual shootings, citizens do far better than law enforcement on hit potential.
    They hit their targets and they don't hit other people. I wish I could say the same for cops.
    We train more, they do better." - Sheriff Greg White, Cole County, Missouri, Guns to be allowed on campus?, KRCG News, July 31, 2009
    You are so off base here I really can't believe it. The goal of a private citizen carrying a firearm is to defend themselves- not to go around stopping criminals and criminal acts. If you can find one other person in this country that says a citizen should carry with a goal in mind of stopping criminal acts that would make two of you. They have a term for that. It's called vigilantism and it's illegal. It's not my money in the cash register at Denny's. It's not my job to stop a robbery. To open fire on a criminal robbing Denny's is not defending yourself. Read the article in the OP again. The shooting started after the gun owner pulled his gun. As I said before you really do need some training. The military does absolutely nothing to prepare you for carrying as a citizen. Your posts in this thread are a perfect example of that. I just had a Marine in class recently. I ran him through the previously mentioned bank robbery scenario. He shot the robber at the teller window and got killed by the accomplice. In trying to hide his embarrassment he said “well, it didn't go down like that in Afghanistan.” Guess what: you're not in Afghanistan anymore. Good luck to you employing your philosophy of carrying in public.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Rich_S View Post
    You are so off base here I really can't believe it. The goal of a private citizen carrying a firearm is to defend themselves- not to go around stopping criminals and criminal acts.
    It all depends largely upon state law. Read Washington's law again, buddy...I'll highlight some words for you:

    "RCW 9A.16.050
    Homicide — By other person — When justifiable.

    Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

    (1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his or her presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished;"

    I carry a gun to protect myself and my family from violent, criminal acts. And, more than likely, I will aid in the protection of other human beings, because that is part of my moral beliefs. I'm not a cop. I'm not going to pull my gun and stop a shoplifter I see putting a candy bar in their pocket. I'm not going to run my car around a person I see who might be driving drunk and force them to stop and apprehend them. I'm not going to hold the next door neighbor at gunpoint for the cops to arrive because they are illegally burning trash in a barrel. I am not going to sit in my car and listen to a police scanner and rush to scenes of crimes. I am not going to look for flashing lights to intervene in situations where the police are.

    What I am going to do is take action when criminals put themselves in my presence with the means readily available to commit a violent felony and a clear design to commit a violent felony, depending on the totality of the circumstances, the biggest factor of which is the possibility of injuring innocent bystanders.

    If I shoot at an armed robber, and the robber shoots the clerk/waitress - don't put the blame on me for that one, pal. It wasn't I who came into the restaurant with a mask and brandishing a gun. It wasn't I who chose to shoot and kill the waitress. That's 100% on the criminal. You say if the criminal gets what they want, then they most likely will leave without hurting anyone. I say if the criminal faces consequences that far outweigh potential benefit from the crime, they will most likely flee.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  5. #64
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    597
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    It all depends largely upon state law. Read Washington's law again, buddy...I'll highlight some words for you:

    "RCW 9A.16.050
    Homicide — By other person — When justifiable.

    Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

    (1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his or her presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished;"

    I carry a gun to protect myself and my family from violent, criminal acts. And, more than likely, I will aid in the protection of other human beings, because that is part of my moral beliefs. I'm not a cop. I'm not going to pull my gun and stop a shoplifter I see putting a candy bar in their pocket. I'm not going to run my car around a person I see who might be driving drunk and force them to stop and apprehend them. I'm not going to hold the next door neighbor at gunpoint for the cops to arrive because they are illegally burning trash in a barrel. I am not going to sit in my car and listen to a police scanner and rush to scenes of crimes. I am not going to look for flashing lights to intervene in situations where the police are.

    What I am going to do is take action when criminals put themselves in my presence with the means readily available to commit a violent felony and a clear design to commit a violent felony, depending on the totality of the circumstances, the biggest factor of which is the possibility of injuring innocent bystanders.

    If I shoot at an armed robber, and the robber shoots the clerk/waitress - don't put the blame on me for that one, pal. It wasn't I who came into the restaurant with a mask and brandishing a gun. It wasn't I who chose to shoot and kill the waitress. That's 100% on the criminal. You say if the criminal gets what they want, then they most likely will leave without hurting anyone. I say if the criminal faces consequences that far outweigh potential benefit from the crime, they will most likely flee.

    Earlier the goal was to stop a criminal act. Now it's to defend yourself and your family. You're like a fish on a boat.....

  6. #65
    Good grief. There aren't enough facepalms to even begin to cover much of what's been written in this thread.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Rich_S View Post
    Earlier the goal was to stop a criminal act. Now it's to defend yourself and your family. You're like a fish on a boat.....
    Stopping the criminal is protecting myself and my family.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  8. #67
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    597
    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Green View Post
    Good grief. There aren't enough facepalms to even begin to cover much of what's been written in this thread.
    Opinions are like anal openings. Everyone has one and they all stink.

  9. #68
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    597
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Stopping the criminal is protecting myself and my family.

    Hey....whatever you say. I know it's imortant for you to get the last word in so please feel free.

  10. #69
    No Guns Allowed at Denny's, guess thats where the LEO's will be able to locate all the BG's eating breakfast. BG's don't care about a sign. I don't eat there because of the food and most of them are dirty.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Rich_S View Post
    Hey....whatever you say. I know it's imortant for you to get the last word in so please feel free.
    Thank you. Here's the difference between you and me, apparently. You're sitting in Denny's sipping coffee and reading your newspaper when one or more criminals with masks on their heads and brandishing guns comes in. You simply don't view them as a deadly threat to you or your family until they actually start shooting in your direction.

    I view them as a deadly threat to me and my family the second they step through the door with masks on their heads and brandishing guns. I am not a mind reader nor a clairvoyant. I don't know what their intentions are. It might be an armed robbery, it might be an IHOP or Luby's Cafeteria shooting. I can't predict if or when they will start shooting. It might be when they hear sirens in the distance. The situation could change at any moment.

    The problem is, if I choose to wait to defend myself and my family until the criminals do start shooting, it is likely to be too late at that point. What if the first bullet out of their gun hits its mark?

    By coming through the door with masks on their heads and brandishing firearms, they have already satisfied all the requirements in my state's laws for deadly force to be legally used against them. Other states may differ, but that's the way it is in my state. I feel the legislature was very smart in writing the law that way and I will not hesitate to evaluate a situation and take the action necessary to stop a deadly threat, hopefully before the deadly threat turns into a direct attack. And, in most cases, it isn't going to matter if that deadly threat is against me, my wife, my daughter or a complete stranger. I just don't have it in me to stand by and be the best witness I can when someone else's life is in danger and to possibly watch a violent felony be committed against them or murdered.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

Page 7 of 13 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Quantcast