Denny's "no guns allowed" signs seem to be working. - Page 8
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Thread: Denny's "no guns allowed" signs seem to be working.

  1. #71
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno NV
    Posts
    174
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_S View Post
    So it's a MUCH better idea to open fire in a Denny's then? You miss or only wound him. BG opens fire and kills several innocent people. How would that end for you? Also, please quote where I suggest to get on your knees and beg. Of course there's a way to shoot both BG's. You have to be paying attention and be able to hit him with a head shot because he's behind the cover of a desk. Most people think it's over once they kill the guy at the teller window. Some get a shot off but can't hit him from behind cover. Some do hit him but it's rare. For every robbery you can show me where a BG went in shooting and an armed civilian saved the day I can show you thousands where they came in brandishing a gun and ran after they got the money- which is all they wanted in the first place. Also please post links to the training that instructs people to open fire on the BG in a scenarion like the Denny's robbery. Thanks
    If I didn't think I'd be better off defending myself, why would I even bother to carry a gun? If you don't believe society is better off with armed, law abiding citizens, what are you an instructor of?

    I have no wish to shoot anyone, especially an innocent bystander, and there are scenarios where I would hold fire, even at my own personal risk. I have long voiced my concern over an untrained moron with a gun deciding it's a good idea to run into a 7/11 to stop a robbery in progress, so I think we're basically on the same page. But in the grand scheme of things, I'd rather have my gun and not need it, than need it and not have it.

    Here's an interesting coincidence, yesterday the wife and I decided to meet in town for lunch. Where did she suggest we go to eat? Denny's. I told her that I won't eat there because of their policy of not allowing law abiding customers to carry inside their restaurant.

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  3. #72
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    597
    Quote Originally Posted by BuddhaKat View Post
    If I didn't think I'd be better off defending myself, why would I even bother to carry a gun? If you don't believe society is better off with armed, law abiding citizens, what are you an instructor of?

    I have no wish to shoot anyone, especially an innocent bystander, and there are scenarios where I would hold fire, even at my own personal risk. I have long voiced my concern over an untrained moron with a gun deciding it's a good idea to run into a 7/11 to stop a robbery in progress, so I think we're basically on the same page. But in the grand scheme of things, I'd rather have my gun and not need it, than need it and not have it.

    Here's an interesting coincidence, yesterday the wife and I decided to meet in town for lunch. Where did she suggest we go to eat? Denny's. I told her that I won't eat there because of their policy of not allowing law abiding customers to carry inside their restaurant.
    We are on the same page if you think that this Denny's incident is a no shoot scenario. If you read the article in the OP it says the BGs started shooting after the gun owner shot at them. If he didn't pull his gun they more than likely would have taken the money and run. By shooting at them he caused them to shoot back and that created risks to himself and bystanders that should have been avoided IMO. I don't see the gun owner being the target of an attack in this scenario. He's very lucky that his actions didn't get someone killed. I totally support 2A, self defense, and armed citizens. I support the NRA as well as some local pro 2A nonprofits. I advocate for gun ownership in my community by promoting my club and bringing in new people to our range. I also happen to think that there's a time and a place to act and there's a time and a place to hold fire. In this scenario I would have been prepared to fire if things escalated but I would have held off. Several people in this thread think I would be at risk for doing so. Look at the risk the gun owner took and the peril he put himself in. Look at the risk he created for innocent third parties. This type of thing gives the antis ammunition to use against us by shouting about how some “nut case” opened fire in Denny's and needlessly put people at risk. If he held off he probably wouldn't have been shot at. He may have been at risk for holding off but he was absolutely 100% at risk by acting. This is the mindset I teach. You have a definite risk by acting in this situation. You have a possible risk by holding off. I like to odds of possible risk over definite myself. YMMV.

  4. Ok. Hold on a second, let me get this straight... Denny's says 'no guns'! That means the BG's are going to read the sign and say "OH NO! I can't go in there and create mayhem because they say 'no guns!'? I better go to IHOP and do my evil there!"?
    Is Denny's really that stupid???

    WHAT IDIOTS!!!!!

  5. Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  6. #75
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Santa Fe Area, New Mexico
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    3,487
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    If the man at the register had been CC'ing, as soon as he saw the BG's entering with guns drawn. He (I) would have unloaded my 1911. Per the VID, no one was behind them upon entering. CLEAR field of fire possibly. Really can't tell from the VID whats behind the BG's though.

    As for Denny's, sounds like a GRAND SLAM is the only thing you can do there physically. (BUTT-CC is CC)JUS Saying
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." --author and philosopher Ayn Rand (1905-1982)

  7. #76
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Battle Creek Mi
    Posts
    1,853
    No such signs here in MI... must be a local thing...
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century
    "Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out!" Father John Corapi.

  8. #77
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    State of Confusion
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    7,733
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_S View Post
    There's common sense and there's fear. Rambo wannabes who think they are going to save the day should think twice.
    Watch out Rich, I got flamed for calling some gun owners Rambo. I was told I should act without insult and be held to a higher standard. I said bull-a-crap. You're an instructor and so am I. We see Rambo on a regular basis. Plenty of people out there itching for a confrontation. What most don't understand that if they should injure or kill someone, God forbide an innocent patron, it will absolutely ruin their life. Most clerks are instructed to give up the $$. Some posters want to nail us down to exactly what we would do and when. That shows lack of experience.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  9. #78
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    597
    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Watch out Rich, I got flamed for calling some gun owners Rambo. I was told I should act without insult and be held to a higher standard. I said bull-a-crap. You're an instructor and so am I. We see Rambo on a regular basis. Plenty of people out there itching for a confrontation. What most don't understand that if they should injure or kill someone, God forbide an innocent patron, it will absolutely ruin their life. Most clerks are instructed to give up the $$. Some posters want to nail us down to exactly what we would do and when. That shows lack of experience.
    Exactly right. That one flier at the range is the one that ends up in someone's skull at Denny's....

  10. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by cougaram View Post
    Ok. Hold on a second, let me get this straight... Denny's says 'no guns'! That means the BG's are going to read the sign and say "OH NO! I can't go in there and create mayhem because they say 'no guns!'? I better go to IHOP and do my evil there!"?
    Is Denny's really that stupid???

    WHAT IDIOTS!!!!!
    Or perhaps someone has thought it through on an intellectual level, rather than an NRA slogan level.

    Very few "armed" robberies of establishments result in violence. Even bank robberies have very few injuries even though the bad guys have to enter deep into the establishment to rob a bank.

    Like most restaurants, Denny's have the cash registers near the entrances. So it is even easier for a bad guy to get in and get out with the money than in a bank.

    Thus Denny's security plan, like those of most banks, is to give the bad guys the money and get them off the premises with as little risk as possible to its employees and customers.

    The two most likely things that would screw up that security plan are:

    1. Am employee who tries to prevent the robbery; and

    2. a customer who tries to intervene in the robbery.

    Denny's can train its employees to eliminate the first problem.

    It can prohibit customers from carrying weapons on the premise to help reduce the probability of the second.

    In essence, Denny's no gun sign says "We don't want any idiots trying to intervene in a robbery and putting our employees and customers at a much higher risk of being injured or killed. If you are that type of an idiot perhaps you should eat elsewhere."

    The no guns sign isn't for the bad guys - its for the other idiots.

  11. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_S View Post
    Liklihood of me getting jammed up hard criminally and civilly if I shoot someone coming to the aid of a stranger in Massachusetts: 100%

    Liklihood of a stranger intervening to help a family member of mine: .000000000001%

    Karma has 0 bearing here and I'll play the percentages all day long.
    Being a MA native, where people can break into your house, rob you and sue you AND WIN for tripping and hurting themselves, I have to agree with this.

    But outside of MA where we have rights, I agree with NavyLCDR. You can't let people die or get hurt if you can stop it from happening. Here in VA if that happened and lives where in danger and I could do something about it, I would. Because I wouldn't fear jail for being the good guy.

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