Manager with a disgruntled user who has a CCP, need advice - Page 2
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Thread: Manager with a disgruntled user who has a CCP, need advice

  1. Quote Originally Posted by The_Outlaw View Post
    ^^What He Said^^

    Especially about the 'trolling' part.
    Sincere thanks for the feedback and quick response. I'm at a university, so firing just for being disgruntled is not really possible, hence my focus on defensive measures. Good to know the limitations of armor.

    I think if we have a meeting with him and HR and outline the concerns it may serve to settle him down. His wife is a settling influence on the conspiracy theories and Thermite hobby. He may decide that keeping his job is better than "winning".

    Maybe HR can get him to agree to not carry at work, and maybe they'll have enough to get attorney general backing, based on his erratic behavior and thinking, though I think getting a formal court determination that's he's unfit to have a CCP is a stretch.

    Thanks again. Hopefully I'm just being a cautious manager and we don't end up on CNN.

  2.   
  3. #12
    Been a state licensed therapist for 20 years. Most of them working psych or crisis. You don't say what sort of work you do but hopefully the company has a health insurance plan. On the back of his health insurance card is a number to call for behavioral health help. This guy needs to be shrunk out as a condition of his continued employment. Most states also have laws to take people who are a danger to others off the streets before they do something. I'd call your local crisis agency and get clear on what they are. Here in Arizona it can be statements of intent to harm others...a doctor decides based on someone else's sworn statement of what the person in question has said or done.

    Definite time bomb here...don't minimize it. Also check your company policy to see if there's a procedure to follow.

    Okay, just saw you're at a university - missed that. University, of all places, should have a plan in place for such situations. And for sure be talking to your boss and bosses for guidance.

  4. #13
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by WesternSage View Post
    I'm not really a gun guy - shot a .22 as a teenager once - but I have a problem:

    One of my employees is disgruntled (admits it freely), is definitely a gun guy, brags about playing with Thermite, his social media site has a photo of him with his AR-15, does cage fighting, etc. He also talks about his conceal carry permit, believes the nation is headed toward a civil uprising within two years and tries to recruit his teammates to the cause.

    His teammates are concerned that he's losing it and they're avoiding him, he's had a number of run-ins with customers, and as management we need to address the situation. Oh yeah, he announced to us about 6 months ago that he has Aspergers (before it was eliminated as a diagnosis). A full roster of stuff, for sure.

    Given that his closest co-workers are concerned he may snap, I'm wondering what kind of defensive measures I can take. How good is body armor? What about helmets? Any general advice on how to diffuse the situation?

    I'm not trolling, definitely not looking for a debate, just looking for insight. Any constructive responses appreciated.
    If he has has a "number of run ins with customers", he is incompetent to do his job. When you are ready to remove him from your employ, you may want to call the police to have them there as a precaution. If he has keys to the place, change the locks. If you don't have a security system with cameras, get one. Kevlar only does so much good, but when a guy with a gun realizes that shooting you in the chest isn't getting the effect he was looking for, he will shoot you between the eyes.

    One cannot defend against a gun unless one is on equal footing. In other words, equally armed.

    Also, if this guy does snap, and you've handed out the armor vests and helmets to your employees and one of them gets hurt or worse, gets killed, then a civil court will show easily that you knew this guy was a deadly threat by your actions of the armored vest and helmets yet did nothing else to remove him from the situation. You will be liable unless you get rid of him. If he blows up when you try to fire him, file a Protection from Abuse against him as well.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  5. #14
    Make this guy see a shrink who will let you know how dangerous he is. If he is as tough as you say and really believes that there is danger every where, he could possibly do real damage if he ever snaps. Get him help and alert others to be aware of him. Stop the possible next big shooting.


  6. #15
    If you have a Human Resources department, hand the issue over to them. Thats what they're there for, and most are very good at their jobs. And if you're really worried this guy might go off. Get some training and start carrying.

  7. #16
    If you work at a university are there laws in your state that prohibit carry on campus? I agree with the others that suggest checking on what psychiatric help would be available to him, or turn it over to HR.

  8. #17
    Join Date
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    Your post also does not indicate what state you are in. For example I live in WA which is an "at will" state. That means I can get fired for any reason, no explanation required. If he is creating a "hostile" workplace you should have every right to get rid of this guy. Definition: "A hostile work environment exists when an employee experiences workplace harassment and fears going to work because of the offensive, intimidating, or oppressive atmosphere generated by the harasser." Hostile work environment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Also is it "Tannerite", or "Thermite"? Two different things, tannerite is a popular compound used by shooting enthusiast to add a good bang to target shooting. http://www.tannerite.com/
    Thermite is for burning, and has no actual explosive attributes.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite

  9. Quote Originally Posted by WesternSage View Post
    I'm not really a gun guy - shot a .22 as a teenager once - but I have a problem:

    One of my employees is disgruntled (admits it freely), is definitely a gun guy, brags about playing with Thermite, his social media site has a photo of him with his AR-15, does cage fighting, etc. He also talks about his conceal carry permit, believes the nation is headed toward a civil uprising within two years and tries to recruit his teammates to the cause.

    His teammates are concerned that he's losing it and they're avoiding him, he's had a number of run-ins with customers, and as management we need to address the situation. Oh yeah, he announced to us about 6 months ago that he has Aspergers (before it was eliminated as a diagnosis). A full roster of stuff, for sure.

    Given that his closest co-workers are concerned he may snap, I'm wondering what kind of defensive measures I can take. How good is body armor? What about helmets? Any general advice on how to diffuse the situation?

    I'm not trolling, definitely not looking for a debate, just looking for insight. Any constructive responses appreciated.
    The only way to win a fight is to avoid it entirely. There are no adequete defenses that will be nearly as effective as no conflict. You have no effective means of defense - armor won't be of any use and handguns will not be of much avail to someone with as little experience as yourself.

    So on one hand if you are afraid...that's a really big warning sign. On the other hand, he sounds like a good chunk of the country. Owns guns, has a CCW, doubts the political stability of our declining empire, unhappy with work, mental health abnormality? That describes me and my family and friends.

    It's hard to say without knowing a great deal more information. Is this guy really a dangerous nut? Or are you a bunch of sheltered academics/beaurocrats/office drones who are threatened by anyone who has a world view far outside of the official story and propaganda?

    Legally speaking it'd be best to send him to a counselor...practically speaking several mass murderers have been sent to the shrink before they mass murder.

    Me, I'd talk to the guy and be work-friends with him, see how he views violence. Nothing you've said so far indicates to me this man is an actual threat to you or your staff. If he thinks violence is a solution, or is a good thing, or is an enjoyable thing, to his problems I'd be more concerned. If he views violence as an undesirable last ditch means of self defense and survival then I'd be less worried by far.

    And why is he disgruntled? Work with him to identify the problems and work towards solutions.

    I'm just some guy...but if you can't get rid of the guy then become more actively involved in his life so you can understand and intervene and help effectively if that's needed. Isolating him and sending him to treatment and planning for a mass shooting in a passive quarter assed way won't be effective and may be counter productive (especially if he is put on 'meds').

  10. #19
    I say just have a talk with the guy, first. Tell him that some of the things he's saying is causing controversy among his coworkers. Then ask him to think about his attitude. Keep notes on what is said.
    If things don't change, then call in some help...
    If you just turn him over to HR (whatever that is) or the police, he'll lose his rights; and it could be that he's just popping off like happens on this forum all the time.
    Stop, Drop, and Roll won't work in Hell.
    The truth about the former Republic of the United States of America:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6Ioz...ayer_embedded#

  11. Fist off, thermite is fun! It's not an explosive, it is a aluminum/iron mix that burns very hot and produces liquid iron to melt stuff, and is not really an issue in this case. The CCW is not an issue. The civil unrest worries are not an issue here either. Several of the most stable people I know are at least a little worried about something like this. The real issue here is his behavior. Having worked for a national healthcare company, if talking directly to him dosnt help, my advice is to get HR and behavioral/mental health specialists involved, as well as his wife as you mentioned. If you are really worried about him, take steps to remove him from the business, even if its limited to a leave of absence while he is in counseling. Don't just ignore it. As mentioned other here, getting your own CCW, and some training, might be a good idea as well. Its not just for the workplace. Oh, and document everything that's going on from everyone who works with him that you can.

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