Being A Permit Holder Does NOT Make You A Cop - Page 2
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Thread: Being A Permit Holder Does NOT Make You A Cop

  1. #11
    When a citizen with a firearm goes looking for trouble, they are a vigilante, and then they become part of the problem, and not a solution.

    If the BG comes into my home, I will use deadly force if they pose a threat. If I see someone suspicious I will call 911, and be prepared to defend myself if they become a real threat. If they turn and run, then I'll do the best I can to observe anything I can to help law enforcement hopefully catch the guy.

    Strapping on a firearm and 'patroling' is just looking for trouble, and most likely you will find it, and have some serious legal issues, like the guy that chased down and then shot the 17 year old Trevor Martin. This "captain of the neighborhood watch" is total BS, and the results are pretty much what happens when vigilante mentality combined with the power of a gun overcomes reason, and the law.
    “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
    But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” ― Steven Weinberg

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  3. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    I don't think anyone would argue with you on this point. Helping someone who is being victimized is quite different from someone who isn't a cop walking around with their chest stuck out and flashing a CCW badge wanting everyone to think that they have police powers.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
    But you damn well better know who is the victim. You pull into a convenience parking lot and see one guy on the ground, and the other just wailing the crap out of him. Who is the victim. You DON'T KNOW, you can only see who is winning now. Did the guy getting his clock cleaned actually initiate a strong armed robbery, and the victim who has some martial arts training whoops the bg's butt.

    Sometimes it will be clear, such as a bunch of punks trying to carjack a woman with kids in a parking lot, sometimes you just don't know.
    “Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things.
    But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.” ― Steven Weinberg

  4. #13
    I carry a gun for my own protection and the protection of my family. Period.
    NRA Life Member
    NRA Certified Instructor (Pistol & Personal Defense in the Home)
    North Carolina Concealed Carry Instructor

  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD40scinNC View Post
    When a citizen with a firearm goes looking for trouble, they are a vigilante, and then they become part of the problem, and not a solution.

    If the BG comes into my home, I will use deadly force if they pose a threat. If I see someone suspicious I will call 911, and be prepared to defend myself if they become a real threat. If they turn and run, then I'll do the best I can to observe anything I can to help law enforcement hopefully catch the guy.

    Strapping on a firearm and 'patroling' is just looking for trouble, and most likely you will find it, and have some serious legal issues, like the guy that chased down and then shot the 17 year old Trevor Martin. This "captain of the neighborhood watch" is total BS, and the results are pretty much what happens when vigilante mentality combined with the power of a gun overcomes reason, and the law.
    Would tend to agree except for one problem, I'm not convinced you have the story straight because you weren't there.


    I used to be a government-educated stooge. By the grace of God, I repent. -Robert Burris

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by tattedupboy View Post
    Even at the risk of ruffling some feathers on here, I would say that if George Zimmerman had followed this advice, Trayvon Martin would still be alive. Argue with me if you will, but the fact remains that Zimmerman had no business exiting his vehicle that night.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
    In these replies on this thread there are 2 distinct "takes" on what the CCWP means. I used this quoted reply as my overall answer. I think the Zimmermans of the world "assume" and believe that they have a lot more authority than they really have. Whether this is their way of dealing with their own inadequacies or a total lack of what a CCWP really means--hard to say--but it exists in the mindsets of Zimmermans of the world. I do not believe any of us would just walk away from a scenario that we can easily presume some kind of responsibility to assist, but to leave your house with the intent of being more than what you are suppose to be responsible for is dangerous and irresponsible.

  7. #16
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    I saw this on an episode of COPS several years ago and i think it is an excellent example of what I believe is a perfect case of a citizen appropriately assisting the police in the performance of their duties.

    two female cops go to a bar in Pittsburg to arrest a drunk & disorderly. This is before Tasers and when they attempt to hand cuff him he just stands there and both of them together can’t get his arms into position to put the cuffs on. Finally another patron of the bar walks up, grabs the arrestee’s arms and forces them into position while the police cuff him.
    That, to me, is being a good citizen. That’s helping out where needed and I’m completely OK with that.

    Another example would be the time a contractor from the local cable company came to hook up my neighbors’ house I saw the contractor looking in their back window, So I went over and asked what was up when they told me I asked to see their Cable company ID, took note of their license plate and made sure I told the neighbor when they came home.

    Same neighbor had a teenage daughter who had some boys over during school hours. I don’t know the whole story but apparently mom came home while they were in the house and while mom was in the shower they snuck out and my wife saw it. My wife told the neighbor it happened and let her handle it.

    To me, that’s an appropriate limit of being a good citizen and helping out your fellow man and yes we should all do that. Stop and held someone change a tire; give a homeless person a McDonald’s gift certificate? I’m all for it.

    But please, please, please don’t strap on your pistol every morning thinking that you have a duty to enforce the law. Please don’t assume authority over my life that you don’t have.
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD40scinNC View Post
    When a citizen with a firearm goes looking for trouble, they are a vigilante, and then they become part of the problem, and not a solution.

    If the BG comes into my home, I will use deadly force if they pose a threat. .
    If they come INTO my house they are a threat and the threat will be immediately neutralized.
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." --author and philosopher Ayn Rand (1905-1982)

  9. #18
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    As a legally armed citizen, we are held to a higher standard. That standard is to know how to safely handle and utilize our firearm, but also to know when and how to use it.

    We are not LE... this is very true. We are however citizens, and as one person mentioned many states allow for a citizen's arrest. So, the question then that one should ask one's self is "when is it appropriate, necessary, or even justified to do so?"

    There are some that say "never... it's not my business". I don't have that cold of a heart to have that firm of a position. If I see someone defenseless getting the scheisse beat of them, and I can help, I probably will. Other factors come into play, is the aggressor armed and with extra company are major factors. Sometimes, avoiding the situation, calling 911 and being a good witness from afar is the best strategy. Sometimes fleeing with all you have is the most prudent thing to do in a given situation.

    The key to the "spirit" of this thread is to always be aware of your situation. Some call this "condition yellow". Your condition should escalate only if your surroundings demand an escalated condition. As to when or where or even should we step in to help a situation with a BG, that comes down to a) being aware of your situation, b) knowing your ability, c) knowing the laws, and d) your own personal moral compass.

    If someone who carries a firearm regularly has not had these questions run through their head several hundred times, they really need to have a good hard look at them. The questions always remain, at what point are you willing to pull your weapon, at what point are you legally allowed to pull your weapon, and at what point do you feel morally OK to pull your weapon. If you can't answer them... may God help you if you are faced with a situation and you're "unsure".
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  10. #19
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    Being A Permit Holder Does NOT Make You A Cop

    My reaction to an event will be responded to by me whether I have a weapon or not.
    I stopped a drunk in a large nightclub after he drew a gun and started shooting at people.
    I saw a man in trouble (ie being shot at) and I reacted to help.
    I had no weapon other than my hands and feet but I acted.
    I ran at the shooter (over thirty feet or so) and pounced on him just as his second shot struck the man in the shoulder.
    110 patrons in this club all sought refuge under tables! This guy being shot at was left to deal with it, alone as everyone else only looked out for themselves!
    I could not have lived with myself if this guy got killed as I cowered under a table.
    I did this WITHOUT a weapon because I'm the kind of guy who is willing to get involved.
    And yes, I knew the man who got shot. He was a friend of mine.

    Why should things be different just because I now own a gun?
    If I have that mindset to help others, why wouldn't I?
    I'm not a vigilantly looking for trouble. I don't play "cop" to get my rocks off and I certainly am not wishing to be the guy to stop the next "mall shooter".

    Gun or no gun, I think it takes a very special kind of mindset to put ones safety at risk for another.
    There a thousands of examples of ordinary men and woman who have stepped up to the plate to help others, at great risk to themselves.
    I don't let the fear of a Lawyer dictate whether to get involved or not. It's a human condition in me that allows me to act while others freeze.
    While it very well may cost me my life some day, I can't just sit on the sideline when my involvement can make a difference, I just can't.




    Sent from behind enemy lines.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post

    To me, that’s an appropriate limit of being a good citizen and helping out your fellow man and yes we should all do that. Stop and held someone change a tire; give a homeless person a McDonald’s gift certificate? I’m all for it.

    But please, please, please don’t strap on your pistol every morning thinking that you have a duty to enforce the law. Please don’t assume authority over my life that you don’t have.
    I keep a set of tools in the trunk for this very reason. I've changed serpentine belts, idler pulleys, batteries and tires in the parking lot at work. I've done it enough if someone is having car trouble another employee will find me to see if I can help.

    One elderly lady couldn't get her car to start, my supervisor had been trying to help her but it wouldnt turn over, not even click. So he went and got a battery charger but after 30 minutes it still wouldn't do anything. He came and got me, I went and sat in the car, noticed it was in drive instead of park, put in park and started right up. Told him it was a blown ignition fuse to let him save face.

    I'll do whatever I can to help my fellow man, and that includes using my gun, but only if I'm positive of what happened and is happening. I'm not going out on a citizens patrol though.

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