Are gun banners making hash out of reciprocity?
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Thread: Are gun banners making hash out of reciprocity?

  1. #1

    Are gun banners making hash out of reciprocity?

    I'm a NC resident with a CCW that is, according to the reciprocity maps on this site, recognized in 37 states. With all the gun grabbing going on in places like Colorado, which is shown to reognize my permit, am I still safe to travel to those states, or are we now essentially dealing with third world Zimbabwe permitting, where you better have a case of cigarettes and some bottles of whiskey as trading material ? I've done what was asked in obtaining my permit, and though I travel less now than I used to, it is still a concern that I could get to be some zealots toy, thinking I'd jumped all their wickets, only to be told some local Burgermeister has his own backwoods laws and version of justice in America. Personally, I like the idea of living in an America where the 2nd Amendment applies to all Americans equally, but the present regime seems to find that America in need of change.

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  3. #2
    They need to make CCW's from all states good in every state.

  4. #3

    Are gun banners making hash out of reciprocity?

    Your still safe but you must conform to their mag max. I checked Legal Heat and USCCA to have my facts before posting.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by cluznar View Post
    They need to make CCW's from all states good in every state.


    Every state has different requirements for carry permits..some require a class, some require proficiency demonstration, some just require that you can steam up a mirror and have had no major convictions in your background.. once all states get on the same page for carry permit qualifications, we could go national carry permit.

    but how often do all the states agree on anything? ;)

  6. Colorado has not changed anything on what other state's permits are honored. Even if you are in doubt, just tuck in the shirt and open-carry. You do not need a permit to OC here and it is common enough that most people do not even look twice at you. (Do not OC in Denver city limits, it is not allowed there). The only thing you will need to concern yourself with, and only after July 1st, is the 15 bullet magazine size.

    However, all mags purchased before July 1, 2013 are grandfathered in and still perfectly legal, so just say that you bought it years ago. The burden is on them to prove that you have an "illegal magazine", not for you to prove otherwise.

    Colorado is still a very gun-friendly state.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by TMcArthur View Post
    Colorado has not changed anything on what other state's permits are honored. Even if you are in doubt, just tuck in the shirt and open-carry. You do not need a permit to OC here and it is common enough that most people do not even look twice at you. (Do not OC in Denver city limits, it is not allowed there). The only thing you will need to concern yourself with, and only after July 1st, is the 15 bullet magazine size.

    However, all mags purchased before July 1, 2013 are grandfathered in and still perfectly legal, so just say that you bought it years ago. The burden is on them to prove that you have an "illegal magazine", not for you to prove otherwise.

    Colorado is still a very gun-friendly state.
    Denver is becoming Chicago, you could not pay me to live there. JMHO

  8. #7
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    The reason for the headache for Interstate travel is because each state has its own sets of laws concerning how and where you can carry. Such things as open vs. concealed carry, magazine restrictions, carrying in a vehicle, types of ammo allowed, etc., is different in every state. Add into this that each state has different restrictions on how to attain the "right" to carry. (That always burns me when I write that.) So, when you add up all the crap that has mired our legal system with carrying a firearm and you mix it with every states laws, you have know what the laws are in each state you are allowed to carry within. Therefore, I carry a three-ring binder with each states' reciprocity agreements with my state and with UT (I have a UT permit as well). The reason you ask? Because the local yokel LEO won't know. If I have the document that OH recognizes UT's permit and I'm from PA, this makes things go a lot more smoothly if I can show him the reciprocity agreement. Sure, you can get locked up and then 24 hours later get released once they realize that you broke no laws, but why go through the hassle when you can prevent that. In addition, you educate a cop at the same time.

    Also, to those suggesting a National Carry... watch what you ask for. That would necessarily be restricted by the most restrictive states on the books. Therefore, if we had a National Carry, prepare to have your firearm rights be restricted like NY, NJ, MD, CA, HI, et al.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  9. Quote Originally Posted by cluznar View Post
    They need to make CCW's from all states good in every state.
    I have been saying this for years now. But the Pro-2A crowd keeps saying that we don't need any darned law as it is guaranteed in the Constitution. I agree that it is guaranteed in the Constitution, but being a practical sort of guy and trying to avoid steel barred rooms and lawyers, it would make me feel warm and fuzzy if Congress were to pass The National Reciprocity Act - if you have a concealed carry permit from one state vetted through NICS, it would be valid in every state of the Union. Period. No exceptions. Penalties for NOT adhering to the law with serious teeth like jail time, right down to the LEO making the arrest and right up to the AG of the state.

    We also need the law being proposed that would clarify and make hard and fast the right to transport interstate, although the above would negate the need for same. Right now I am afraid to travel through several states even with my handgun locked in one safe in my SUV and my ammo and magazines locked in a separate safe in my SUV. Yep, that's right, I have TWO (2) wee solid safes in the back of my SUV for just that purpose. Both are bolted down to the floor of the cab behind the rearmost seat and both are combo safes. I WILL NOT agree to a search of my vehicle and without probable cause LEO's cannot search beyond where I can reach from the driver's seat I believe.

    I will not transport through Illiniois, New Jersey, Delaware, MD, and am greatly hesitant to drive through NY state under FOPA. Dead scared. FOPA is considered an affirmative defense in these states I believe and that means you WILL BE ARRESTED, hauled off to jail, have to put up bail, have to hire an attorney, have your guns confiscated and likely never returned, and so on. In the end, however, the charges will be tossed.

    Do we need the National Reciprocity Law? You bet we do! Do we need FOPA to be updated and improved so that we don't have to poop bricks every time we drive through one of the non-adherent states? You bet we do. Call your representatives today and tell them! Join the NRA. Hell, I don't even live stateside at present and I have taken out LIFE membership in NRA for both my son and for myself. We are LIFE members. Folks talk about tough gun laws in Canada (where I presently reside)? FAR MORE CLEAR than what we deal with (what I deal with) every time I cross the border. And guys, if you haven't noticed, things are getting rougher and tougher thanks to President Obama.

    So, are gun banners making hash out of reciprocity? No. They are making MISERY out of reciprocity. I travel through the states regularly by car and I have to map out my route to avoid states that are not friendly to gun owners. I have to know the laws, day to day, in each state (I carry a laptop and a smartphone for that and check before entering each state on my route). MISERY. I am even afraid to drive to Florida as Florida does not recognize any of the permits I have. I am buying a property in Florida and intend to make it my home for half of every year and will hopefully get a FL resident permit so that I can at least protect myself while there for the half year it is cold up north here.

    Why do I carry concealed? I carry concealed while stateside and legal to do so because the last time I was in Florida I had a whacko bad guy with a honkin big revolver attempt to hijack my van with my family in it. I have not been back to Florida since and will NOT return to Florida until my permits from VA, ME, AZ, UT, NH, etc., are recognized in that state. I am not a resident of Florida at present and I have no clue as to why they will not recognize a non-res permit from other states. The original intent of the change to their concealed carry rules was, as detailed in committee, to ensure that those issued concealed carry permits were either US Citizens OR Legal Landed Immigrants. When it came to the floor it had a type I believe and said US Citizen AND legal US RESIDENT. Not much difference for most, but for me it was the end of the line for a FL permit. I am an American Citizen. When did I become excluded from being one of "WE THE PEOPLE". When did my years of service to my country become totally irrelevant to those that enjoyed the benefits of it? I am ashamed to see what is going on and what has become of our system of government, to our people who have become weak spined and to our legislators, many of whom have lost their morals, forgotten their sworn declaration to uphold the constitution and have become pawns of whomever tells them the best story. It makes me sick to my stomach.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by wolf_fire View Post
    The reason for the headache for Interstate travel is because each state has its own sets of laws concerning how and where you can carry. Such things as open vs. concealed carry, magazine restrictions, carrying in a vehicle, types of ammo allowed, etc., is different in every state. Add into this that each state has different restrictions on how to attain the "right" to carry. (That always burns me when I write that.) So, when you add up all the crap that has mired our legal system with carrying a firearm and you mix it with every states laws, you have know what the laws are in each state you are allowed to carry within. Therefore, I carry a three-ring binder with each states' reciprocity agreements with my state and with UT (I have a UT permit as well). The reason you ask? Because the local yokel LEO won't know. If I have the document that OH recognizes UT's permit and I'm from PA, this makes things go a lot more smoothly if I can show him the reciprocity agreement. Sure, you can get locked up and then 24 hours later get released once they realize that you broke no laws, but why go through the hassle when you can prevent that. In addition, you educate a cop at the same time.

    Also, to those suggesting a National Carry... watch what you ask for. That would necessarily be restricted by the most restrictive states on the books. Therefore, if we had a National Carry, prepare to have your firearm rights be restricted like NY, NJ, MD, CA, HI, et al.
    I said it before and I will say it again, we need FOPA revamped so it is clear as a whistle. We need the National Reciprocity Act 2013, et. al. AND MOST OF ALL, we need them to have big sharp teeth that will put everyone from the AG of the state offending right down the chain of command to the LEO on the street IN JAIL for failing to uphold the law of the land, never mind the second amendment.

    We have become a nation of spineless sheeple and I am ashamed. For what, exactly did I serve my country? For what, exactly, are all of those folks going into harm's way, doing so for? To protect the rights guaranteed by our Constitition? C'mon.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by torontogunguy View Post
    I said it before and I will say it again, we need FOPA revamped so it is clear as a whistle. We need the National Reciprocity Act 2013, et. al. AND MOST OF ALL, we need them to have big sharp teeth that will put everyone from the AG of the state offending right down the chain of command to the LEO on the street IN JAIL for failing to uphold the law of the land, never mind the second amendment.

    We have become a nation of spineless sheeple and I am ashamed. For what, exactly did I serve my country? For what, exactly, are all of those folks going into harm's way, doing so for? To protect the rights guaranteed by our Constitition? C'mon.
    One thinks of the National Reciprocity Act usually from their own state's perspective. If you live in a gun friendly state, most think this act will allow you the same treatment in every other state. You really think the Nat'l Rec. Act will convince Washington, DC, NYC, and Chicago to change their tune, what about CA, NJ, and NY state? You think that having the Federal Gov't be in charge of the reciprocities between states will be the utopian atmosphere for gunowners? We have no idea of predicting that, but if experience is our teacher, the Federal Government will ruin gun ownership with this Act. The reciprocity level, in order to be the same for all, will naturally fall to the most restrictive of states. You think NY is going to put up with people from other states coming into theirs carrying? And your proposal is to have the Federal Gov't force them to.

    Do not, I repeat, do not allow the Federal Government any more power over your firearms than they already have taken. I preach to keep the Federal Government from its over reach, and you preach that they should be in complete control but with "big teeth". This makes no sense to me sir. Please read the 10th Amendment and get back to me on this issue after you have done so. I took an oath to support and defend the entire Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic too, not just the parts I like.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

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