Refusing to hand over firearm at a traffic stop - MO - Page 13
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Thread: Refusing to hand over firearm at a traffic stop - MO

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    If that's how you want to handle it fine just be fully aware that you aree betting your life and your freedom everytime you do it.
    I dont expect you to fathom this concept, BUT my FREEDOM is WHY I DO IT............ and actually, it is for YOUR freedom too.... even when you cant or wont do it for yourself...

    Dont give me crap for standing up for what you WONT stand up for...

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  3. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    ...but your actions and words on the side of the broad may well cause that fight to be won or lost before it has actually begun.
    Well, if y'all had told us that the cop was a broad, we would've come around a lot quicker!
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  4. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserteagle View Post
    My point is that neither having a badge nor having a CCW permit will make you a less dangerous person when handling loaded firearms.
    Nice of you to finally admit that cops have no special skills that makes them any safer than anyone else who is well-familiarized with the use of guns.

    And I think that's really the point. A gun in a center console or in a holster on a hip is not being handled until a cop demands to take possession of it for no reason other than that they think they're special, and as you say above, they are no less dangerous to me while handling my weapon than I am to them while not handling my weapon.

    How can you be so irritating while being in complete agreement with at least one of Axe's points? Oh, that's right, you're a cop.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  5. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    I dont expect you to fathom this concept, BUT my FREEDOM is WHY I DO IT............ and actually, it is for YOUR freedom too.... even when you cant or wont do it for yourself...

    Dont give me crap for standing up for what you WONT stand up for...
    You're so hard core, I'm in awe

    If you truly believe that the cop is violating your Constitutional rights then by all means resist him but (and this is the biggest but you ever read) as soon as you do, remember you are going to have to prove that he wasn’t acting in good faith and that he really was violating your rights. Also remember that you aren’t going to have to prove it to your satisfaction you’re very likely going to have to prove it to a jury of your peers.

    If you are willing to risk that to hang on to your weapon for the few minutes you’re interacting with the cop go ahead but when you are inevitably proved wrong don’t come back here whining like intentional felon about how the cruel government took away your RKBA
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  6. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by treo View Post
    you're so hard core, i'm in awe

    if you truly believe that the cop is violating your constitutional rights then by all means resist him but (and this is the biggest but you ever read) as soon as you do, remember you are going to have to prove that he wasn’t acting in good faith and that he really was violating your rights. Also remember that you aren’t going to have to prove it to your satisfaction you’re very likely going to have to prove it to a jury of your peers.

    If you are willing to risk that to hang on to your weapon for the few minutes you’re interacting with the cop go ahead but when you are inevitably proved wrong don’t come back here whining like intentional felon about how the cruel government took away your rkba
    baaaaaa baaaaaaaa baaaaaaaaa

  7. #126
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    The "courts" are no longer a place to find justice.... The "laws" written and enforced are no longer Constitutional, The police are no longer "peace officers"......
    YET, some of you seem to think that the only way to "fix" this is the same thing that has NOT worked for the last 50 or more years... And I am considered the one who isnt facing reality????

    I am NOT insane (doing things the same way expecting a different outcome) like some of you insist on being.... I have tried and tried to wake some of you up to no avail..... When (not if) it hits the fan, most of you will die off in the first few months, I can tell by what you post that you just dont have what it takes to survive.... If you wont defend yourself now, what makes you think you will later?

  8. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    The "courts" are no longer a place to find justice.... The "laws" written and enforced are no longer Constitutional, The police are no longer "peace officers"......
    YET, some of you seem to think that the only way to "fix" this is the same thing that has NOT worked for the last 50 or more years... And I am considered the one who isnt facing reality????

    I am NOT insane (doing things the same way expecting a different outcome) like some of you insist on being.... I have tried and tried to wake some of you up to no avail..... When (not if) it hits the fan, most of you will die off in the first few months, I can tell by what you post that you just dont have what it takes to survive.... If you wont defend yourself now, what makes you think you will later?
    It may not be your intent but the way you communicate makes it sound like you’re trying to be a tough guy. The fact that you’re alive and don’t have a (known) felony record indicates to me that you’ve never been backed into a real corner over your beliefs or if you have, you folded.

    Even if I accept your assessment of our court system (and I don’t think you’re that far off the mark) you do not have the power to affect the change alone. In my opinion you’re better of working with in the system to affect the change. Which is why I continue to advocate that unless you think the cop is actually going to kill you you’re better off to comply in the moment and then fight it out in the courts.

    I know that you’re going to tell me that the courts are corrupt because they don’t hold to your interpretation of the Constitution Ok I hear you but, again, you don’t have any power (alone) to enforce your point of view.
    If we really are in the middle of this “war” of yours why doesn’t everyone else see it? If our courts really are as corrupt as you claim why aren’t more people out in the street?

    Now, don’t get me wrong, I agree a war (a real war BTW) is coming but it isn’t here yet, I still think we’re at a point where we have legal avenues of redress and I think as long as we have them we need to use them.
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    The "courts" are no longer a place to find justice.... The "laws" written and enforced are no longer Constitutional, The police are no longer "peace officers"......
    YET, some of you seem to think that the only way to "fix" this is the same thing that has NOT worked for the last 50 or more years... And I am considered the one who isnt facing reality????

    I am NOT insane (doing things the same way expecting a different outcome) like some of you insist on being.... I have tried and tried to wake some of you up to no avail..... When (not if) it hits the fan, most of you will die off in the first few months, I can tell by what you post that you just dont have what it takes to survive.... If you wont defend yourself now, what makes you think you will later?
    So, just curious... when are you going to launch your violent overthrow of the US government that the Declaration of Independence says is your right and duty to do?
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  10. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    Now, donít get me wrong, I agree a war (a real war BTW) is coming but it isnít here yet, I still think weíre at a point where we have legal avenues of redress and I think as long as we have them we need to use them.
    Would you mind naming those legal avenues? The Senate itself is unconstitutional. The research chronicled in that link uncovered similar problems with the 16th Amendment as it did with the 17th that it is mostly about. They were "passed" within weeks of each other, and combined with the creation of the Federal Reserve in the same year (1913), a trifecta of usurpations guaranteed that The People would never again be in control of this country.

    According to Article I, Section II, Clause III of the Constitution, the House side of Congress is in the neighborhood of 9,500 Representatives short (One Representative for every 30,000 citizens).

    Our states are no longer officially represented at all. As a free people supposedly represented by House members, we are underrepresented in the 95% range just by strict numbers of House members, orders of magnitude lower when you consider that the system is so bastardized that even whore-mongers, tax-evaders, KKK members, deviants and degenerates of every description can (and do) spend an entire career there, not to mention that just run-of-the-mill incompetents and outright anti-American hacks can (and do) do the same.

    The Supreme Court has been in the business of writing law since at least 1803 when they ruled themselves the authority of "judicial review" that the Constitution purposely never granted them. Just last year they rewrote a fine into a tax to make ObamaCare "constitutional." Many examples of blatant, unambiguously extra-constitutional rulings have been handed down by what is no longer a court of justice, but a gaggle of oligarchs "governing" by fiat.

    All of these avenues of redress have been road-blocked to The People for at least 100 years now, and that's before we even get into all the corrupt usurpers that have occupied the White House.

    If it isn't apparent, I have looked very hard for a route down the Avenue of Redresses, and have found that it doesn't exist. Most people have never heard that the 16th and/or 17th Amendments were inserted into the Constitution illegally, and because of that, the many years worth of research chronicled in the link above about it will not even be read by most here, and I will be dismissed as a tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist. Maybe even by you, Treo, maybe not, but I've taken the time to scratch the surface of why I don't believe that Avenue exists - I would sincerely appreciate you showing me what fork(s) in the road I have missed while searching for it. You sound pretty sure of yourself in the way you stated that we still have avenues of redress available to us, so please, point me in the right direction so I can take comfort in the notion that my government still represents a free people. Thanks in advance.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  11. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    It may not be your intent but the way you communicate makes it sound like you’re trying to be a tough guy. Something wrong with being a "tough guy"? Sounds to me like you are saying I am all wind and no sail.... YET I have ALREADY told you of where ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD, I DID prove my point and WON.... I guess you just didnt want to believe it was possible... The fact that you’re alive and don’t have a (known) felony record indicates to me that you’ve never been backed into a real corner over your beliefs or if you have, you folded. OR I was successful... Hmmm, I guess that never occurred to you did it? (BTW... refusing an unlawful order is NOT a felony) Are you too dense or hardheaded to believe that some things dont always work out the way you just know they would so you never even try them because you havent got enough nerve or the balls to do so? Does it make you feel better to tell others who actually HAVE DONE WHAT YOU SAY WONT WORK that it wont? I am alive and NOT IN JAIL today, yet YOU SAY if anyone tried to do what I advocate they wouldnt be.... I do concede that I have no actual proof of what I claim to have done... yet that doesnt make it any less true, just possibly unbelievable...

    Even if I accept your assessment of our court system (and I don’t think you’re that far off the mark)then why are we having this discussion? you do not have the power to affect the change alone. I am NOT trying to change the "court system", I am not a fool, I KNOW it is beyond help or redemption... In my opinion you’re better of working with in the system to affect the change. If you need to go to town, and you have 2 vehicles... one is broken and the other one isnt, which one do you get in to go there? Which is why I continue to advocate that unless you think the cop is actually going to kill you you’re better off to comply in the moment and then fight it out in the courts. Why should I willingly go someplace with the absolute power of life and death over me once there, and where I cannot, without LOTS of money (that I do not have) defend myself?

    I know that you’re going to tell me that the courts are corrupt because they don’t hold to your interpretation of the Constitution Ok I hear you but, again, you don’t have any power (alone) to enforce your point of view. I do on the side of the road...
    If we really are in the middle of this “war” of yours why doesn’t everyone else see it? If our courts really are as corrupt as you claim why aren’t more people out in the street? Because they are either ignorant because of the "education" system or they just dont care as long as that govt teet doesnt dry up...to give just a few examples, did you really not know these things?

    Now, don’t get me wrong, I agree a war (a real war BTW) is coming but it isn’t here yet, I still think we’re at a point where we have legal avenues of redress and I think as long as we have them we need to use them.
    Yes, if you have LOTS of money and time, you MAY be able to get justice in the "courts"... But what if you have neither? Are you just supposed to lie down and allow them to do whatever they decide to you? How can I protect my family and support them when I am in jail FOR FOLLOWING THE CONSTITUTION or not doing anything actually "unlawful"????

    If, now really think about this treo, think about it really hard..... IF the cops start finding that we as a people will no longer allow them to trample on us with impunity like it has been for years, and we start fighting back and defending ourselves, do you think that just maybe they would start to change their behavior? (and NO TREO,....... fighting back does NOT mean shooting them just for asking you for your firearm, geesh, you think the only way to "fight" something or someone is to shoot them... there are lots of different ways to fight things... are you really as clueless as you come across as?

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