Refusing to hand over firearm at a traffic stop - MO - Page 14
Page 14 of 18 FirstFirst ... 41213141516 ... LastLast
Results 131 to 140 of 177

Thread: Refusing to hand over firearm at a traffic stop - MO

  1. #131
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Colorado Rocky Mountain High
    Posts
    3,899
    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    Would you mind naming those legal avenues? The Senate itself is unconstitutional. The research chronicled in that link uncovered similar problems with the 16th Amendment as it did with the 17th that it is mostly about. They were "passed" within weeks of each other, and combined with the creation of the Federal Reserve in the same year (1913), a trifecta of usurpations guaranteed that The People would never again be in control of this country.

    According to Article I, Section II, Clause III of the Constitution, the House side of Congress is in the neighborhood of 9,500 Representatives short (One Representative for every 30,000 citizens).

    Our states are no longer officially represented at all. As a free people supposedly represented by House members, we are underrepresented in the 95% range just by strict numbers of House members, orders of magnitude lower when you consider that the system is so bastardized that even whore-mongers, tax-evaders, KKK members, deviants and degenerates of every description can (and do) spend an entire career there, not to mention that just run-of-the-mill incompetents and outright anti-American hacks can (and do) do the same.

    The Supreme Court has been in the business of writing law since at least 1803 when they ruled themselves the authority of "judicial review" that the Constitution purposely never granted them. Just last year they rewrote a fine into a tax to make ObamaCare "constitutional." Many examples of blatant, unambiguously extra-constitutional rulings have been handed down by what is no longer a court of justice, but a gaggle of oligarchs "governing" by fiat.

    All of these avenues of redress have been road-blocked to The People for at least 100 years now, and that's before we even get into all the corrupt usurpers that have occupied the White House.

    If it isn't apparent, I have looked very hard for a route down the Avenue of Redresses, and have found that it doesn't exist. Most people have never heard that the 16th and/or 17th Amendments were inserted into the Constitution illegally, and because of that, the many years worth of research chronicled in the link above about it will not even be read by most here, and I will be dismissed as a tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist. Maybe even by you, Treo, maybe not, but I've taken the time to scratch the surface of why I don't believe that Avenue exists - I would sincerely appreciate you showing me what fork(s) in the road I have missed while searching for it. You sound pretty sure of yourself in the way you stated that we still have avenues of redress available to us, so please, point me in the right direction so I can take comfort in the notion that my government still represents a free people. Thanks in advance.

    Blues
    To quote NCLDR

    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    So, just curious... when are you going to launch your violent overthrow of the US government that the Declaration of Independence says is your right and duty to do?
    If things are as far down the road as you and Axe say they are why aren't you in the streets?
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  2.   
  3. #132
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    OHIO
    Posts
    2,109
    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    To quote NCLDR



    If things are as far down the road as you and Axe say they are why aren't you in the streets?
    Alright mr clueless... where is your proof that I am NOT "in the streets"????? WHAT are YOU doing to "Change the system from within" as you so proudly proclaim as the ONLY PROPER WAY TO DO IT??? Where is YOUR proof of actually doing something BESIDES ridiculing those who actually ARE doing something???

  4. #133
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Colorado Rocky Mountain High
    Posts
    3,899
    Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    Alright mr clueless... where is your proof that I am NOT "in the streets"????? WHAT are YOU doing to "Change the system from within" as you so proudly proclaim as the ONLY PROPER WAY TO DO IT??? Where is YOUR proof of actually doing something BESIDES ridiculing those who actually ARE doing something???
    Here is the problem that I, and I think several other posters, have; your rhetoric doesn’t match your actions. The language you’re using describes a country that is under an actual attack with secret state police dragging people from their homes and sending them to relocation camps and that isn’t happening.

    If you truly see America in imminent danger and you truly are the patriot that you claim to be then you should be in an open state of armed conflict with the PTB or the ZOG or the NWO or whatever the acronym is this week and you aren’t. (the fact that you're posting here is all the "proof" I need)

    As for me changing the system from within, I’ve stated numerous times that I believe we are ramping up for the tribulation and this government is going to continue to become more authoritarian regardless of anything we do. IMO trying to restore the republic is nothing more than rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. *

    IMO that’s the main reason you’re coming across as an extremist nut job in this thread.

    *Since I know someone is going to misconstrue what I said above let me be clear, I vote, I contact my representatives (Local, State and Federal) and let them know exactly where I stand on issues. I support PACs like the NRA and I try to educate people. (albeit more about Jesus Christ than politics)

    I’m just not under any illusion that it’s going to change anything
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  5. #134
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Republic of Dead Cell Holler, Occupied Territories of AL, former USA
    Posts
    7,419
    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    To quote NCLDR



    If things are as far down the road as you and Axe say they are why aren't you in the streets?
    Wow. Right back to the same ol' canard that I already answered in detail. You are hopeless, Treo.

    Couldn't be bothered to read any information that I linked to, so you just imply that I'm the one who's too "far down the road."

    I offer you the gift of knowledge that's based on more than 30 years of research, and you reply with meaningless, dismissive insults. It just never ends with you. I woke up with a blinding headache this morning, so I won't blame this one on you. But I will not be giving myself any more headaches by beating my head against the wall that is Treo.

    And just as I thought, you have no idea at all how to find those avenues of redress, or even whether or not any really exist.

    Accusations of me being an idolator because I believe that holding government to the set of laws they are sworn to uphold coming in 5, 4, 3, 2......

    Tool.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  6. #135
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    OHIO
    Posts
    2,109
    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    Here is the problem that I, and I think several other posters, have; your rhetoric doesn’t match your actions. The language you’re using describes a country that is under an actual attack with secret state police dragging people from their homes and sending them to relocation camps and that isn’t happening.

    If you truly see America in imminent danger and you truly are the patriot that you claim to be then you should be in an open state of armed conflict with the PTB or the ZOG or the NWO or whatever the acronym is this week and you aren’t. (the fact that you're posting here is all the "proof" I need)

    As for me changing the system from within, I’ve stated numerous times that I believe we are ramping up for the tribulation and this government is going to continue to become more authoritarian regardless of anything we do. IMO trying to restore the republic is nothing more than rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. *

    IMO that’s the main reason you’re coming across as an extremist nut job in this thread.

    *Since I know someone is going to misconstrue what I said above let me be clear, I vote, I contact my representatives (Local, State and Federal) and let them know exactly where I stand on issues. I support PACs like the NRA and I try to educate people. (albeit more about Jesus Christ than politics)

    I’m just not under any illusion that it’s going to change anything


    Not one solitary sentence in your entire reply refutes anything I said... Seems to me you are arguing with yourself about things you imagine I have said... yet I have said nothing of the sort you accuse me of... YOU imagine I am trying to "overthrow" the govt....or "restore" it..... Quite the contrary... in this thread, I am only demanding that those from the govt who interact with me follow the ACTUAL law they are trying to use against me....

    You also fail worse than anyone I have seen on this forum to understand some very simple concepts of degrees of resisting... YOU think that if someone does NOT shoot someone then they are NOT RESISTING... That sir, is one of the stupidest lines of thinking I have ever seen.... I guess Gandhi never resisted according to you, right?

    NOW, You start spouting off like "contacting your representatives" is actually going to do anything at all....Just because it is how YOU decide to "do something" does NOT mean that is the only way to "resist" that is proper or effective.. in fact, there is AMPLE PROOF that doing so does NOT help in any way at all... Remember the overwhelming public outcry AGAINST obammie care???? You know, where something like 85% of us, the real bosses of this country told those azzholes in congress NOT TO PASS IT???????? that really got their attention didnt it? IF contacting the criminals in DC actually did any good, wouldnt obamacare NOT passing have been the proof it actually does any good at all to contact them? SO, the other side of the coin has to be..... wait for it............ IT DOES NOT WORK!!!! wow, I musta spent YEARS studying in an Ivy League College and gotten multiple degrees to be able to come to that 100% irrefutable conclusion.... arent you proud of me?



    I am DONE with you.... you are beyond help... you wont defend yourself or your family... why do you even have a firearm anymore if you arent going to use it... Although I have no problem with ANYONE who is not incarcerated (or should still be) with possessing one, I think yours are just going to waste... sell them and go buy some more depends..... at least get "some" use out of them...

  7. #136
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    2,837
    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    Here is the problem.
    Iím just not under any illusion that itís going to change anything
    And there in lies the root of the problem with most of America today.
    The ole "what can I do to change the system". "I'm just one person" and "the Government is just so dang powerful!".


    Sent from behind enemy lines.

  8. #137
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Greenville SC
    Posts
    1,086
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by bigb360 View Post
    Good grief are you people children? Must inform in my mind refers to the fact you're a conceal carrier, not necessarily that you're armed at that moment. When he asked if I was armed is when I told him and uncovered the weapon, which was underneath some papers. You're a child to presume to know what happened. What good would it do to lie about that on this useless forum? Get over yourself.

    I not so humbly suggest you not be a presumptuous douche bag.
    People are making these "assumptions" based entirely on what you wrote. I guess they made a presumption that you were accurately describing what happened, which doesn't appear to be the case. And now somehow it is they who are douche bags and children?

    Someone is acting the child all right,

    Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2
    Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive.

  9. #138
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    The Lowcountry of South Carolina
    Posts
    2,039
    Quote Originally Posted by Axeanda45 View Post
    Yes, if you have LOTS of money and time, you MAY be able to get justice in the "courts"... But what if you have neither? Then it might be a good idea to just comply with the officer, take his name and file a formal complaint AFTER you have parted ways and your compliant a$$ is not in jail.Are you just supposed to lie down and allow them to do whatever they decide to you? How can I protect my family and support them when I am in jail FOR FOLLOWING THE CONSTITUTION or not doing anything actually "unlawful"????

    If, now really think about this treo, think about it really hard..... IF the cops start finding that we as a people will no longer allow them to trample on us with impunity like it has been for years, and we start fighting back and defending ourselves, do you think that just maybe they would start to change their behavior? (and NO TREO,....... fighting back does NOT mean shooting them just for asking you for your firearm, geesh, you think the only way to "fight" something or someone is to shoot them... there are lots of different ways to fight things...And lots of places. My point is that the best place probably isn't on the side of the road with a cop who is probably well versed in state or local law, but not in Constitutional law. are you really as clueless as you come across as?
    Now the truth comes out, and you are actually agreeing with what Navy and I have been saying. You can be Constitutionally within your rights all the way to the jail, with every chance of being found not-guilty after a long wait, a lot of money and a trial. As I stated regarding the original posters "original" post, arguing with the cop on the side of the road might not be the best place to avail yourself of those rights, if complying with the officer presents no imminent danger to yourself.
    Chief

  10. Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    Now the truth comes out, and you are actually agreeing with what Navy and I have been saying. You can be Constitutionally within your rights all the way to the jail, with every chance of being found not-guilty after a long wait, a lot of money and a trial. As I stated regarding the original posters "original" post, arguing with the cop on the side of the road might not be the best place to avail yourself of those rights, if complying with the officer presents no imminent danger to yourself.
    There is a HOWEVER associated with that, depending on circumstances. For example, you are walking in the park open carrying a handgun in a holster (where legal) and a police officer approaches you and says "We got calls from people who you are scaring with your gun. I need to see some ID so I can verify you aren't prohibited and I can close this call. I have to investigate all 911 calls, you know?" If you just blindly comply in a situation such as that the courts could interpret that as a voluntary encounter meaning you have lost all claims to a rights violation lawsuit and you will have to prove to the court that any reasonable person would feel detained by the police officer's actions. Rights that you voluntarily give up cannot be violated.

    In that situation the first words out of a person's mouth should be, "Are you detaining me officer?" If the answer is, "No." then politely explain that you do not wish to interact with them anymore and you will continuing on with your day.

    If the answer is "yes, you are being detained", now the officer will have to prove to the court that they had reasonable suspicion as a legal basis for the detainment.

    The traffic stop is a different situation because immediately, with the blue lights behind, any reasonable person would feel they were being detained because....well, they are.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  11. #140
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    The Lowcountry of South Carolina
    Posts
    2,039
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    There is a HOWEVER associated with that, depending on circumstances. For example, you are walking in the park open carrying a handgun in a holster (where legal) and a police officer approaches you and says "We got calls from people who you are scaring with your gun. I need to see some ID so I can verify you aren't prohibited and I can close this call. I have to investigate all 911 calls, you know?" If you just blindly comply in a situation such as that the courts could interpret that as a voluntary encounter meaning you have lost all claims to a rights violation lawsuit and you will have to prove to the court that any reasonable person would feel detained by the police officer's actions. Rights that you voluntarily give up cannot be violated.

    In that situation the first words out of a person's mouth should be, "Are you detaining me officer?" If the answer is, "No." then politely explain that you do not wish to interact with them anymore and you will continuing on with your day.

    If the answer is "yes, you are being detained", now the officer will have to prove to the court that they had reasonable suspicion as a legal basis for the detainment.

    The traffic stop is a different situation because immediately, with the blue lights behind, any reasonable person would feel they were being detained because....well, they are.
    Good point, I was specifically addressing the traffic stop in question and didn't consider the blanket statement I was making could be misunderstood.

Page 14 of 18 FirstFirst ... 41213141516 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Quantcast