Refusing to hand over firearm at a traffic stop - MO - Page 17
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Thread: Refusing to hand over firearm at a traffic stop - MO

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by gejoslin View Post
    When TPTB start going door to door collecting firearms and people for the FEMA camps would be a good time for me to head for the high country. You?
    When it comes, IF I'm still here, which I pray (and believe) I won't be, but if I am, my wife and I will be buggin' in, not out. May not be here at the house, in fact, it almost assuredly won't be, but the only real difference will be a few more acres and some good friends and trusted allies who are also good candidates to be FEMA round-ups to share our last days with. At that point, the notion that they won't be our last days, whether buggin' out to the woods or buggin' in with friends with at least some creature-comforts, is really something I consider rooted in wishful thinking, which I try my best never to engage in.

    But I didn't reply to a post that mentioned headin' for the hills or some such, I replied to one that seemed to imply that our rights weren't already usurped beyond the point of no return, and that there was still a legitimate system to work within to protect, or restore, or otherwise fight for. My question still stands about that system; is it still legitimate? Is it not already beyond the point of return? Did you read the link I posted? Does it seem credible to you if you did? Why not if you didn't? There are literally hundreds of usurpations that have already happened, but none so thoroughly delegitimizing as illegally inserting amendments into the Constitution, and I've checked the information in that link that pertains to Alabama, and Devvy Kidd is 100% accurate that my state could not, under any circumstances, have voted to ratify the 17th Amendment, and I trust her research on the other 35 states she concludes are equally deficient with legitimate votes.

    People seem resistant to admit it, but as far as I can conclude, the republic is already dead, and has been for at least 100 years. I just genuinely wonder what system you see that's left to work within?

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  2.   
  3. My CCW class instructor advised us to inform the officer also. After reading this topic for a few minutes it sounds like a really bad idea.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using USA Carry mobile app

  4. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    When it comes, IF I'm still here, which I pray (and believe) I won't be, but if I am, my wife and I will be buggin' in, not out. May not be here at the house, in fact, it almost assuredly won't be, but the only real difference will be a few more acres and some good friends and trusted allies who are also good candidates to be FEMA round-ups to share our last days with. At that point, the notion that they won't be our last days, whether buggin' out to the woods or buggin' in with friends with at least some creature-comforts, is really something I consider rooted in wishful thinking, which I try my best never to engage in.

    But I didn't reply to a post that mentioned headin' for the hills or some such, I replied to one that seemed to imply that our rights weren't already usurped beyond the point of no return, and that there was still a legitimate system to work within to protect, or restore, or otherwise fight for. My question still stands about that system; is it still legitimate? Is it not already beyond the point of return? Did you read the link I posted? Does it seem credible to you if you did? Why not if you didn't? There are literally hundreds of usurpations that have already happened, but none so thoroughly delegitimizing as illegally inserting amendments into the Constitution, and I've checked the information in that link that pertains to Alabama, and Devvy Kidd is 100% accurate that my state could not, under any circumstances, have voted to ratify the 17th Amendment, and I trust her research on the other 35 states she concludes are equally deficient with legitimate votes.

    People seem resistant to admit it, but as far as I can conclude, the republic is already dead, and has been for at least 100 years. I just genuinely wonder what system you see that's left to work within?

    Blues
    Sorry I didn't respond to that and thanks for posting that link. I had no idea that had happened! It boggles my mind (like thats not hard to do!) that these things have happened and our congress critters aren't doing something to rectify that! That it happened at all!
    My question still stands about that system; is it still legitimate?
    It would seem to me it's not. What could be done to rectify it? I have no idea, I'm not a constitutional lawyer. But should something be done? Damn straight! But what and by who, I have no idea again.
    This will have to be done by men/women who know far more than I do.
    But yeah, America is on the slide and we all know we don't slide uphill.
    I guess getting that motor home and moving to the boonies is looking more appealing all the time.
    Thanks for giving more for me to chew on. Thats why I like to read your posts.
    ~Responsible people who understand that their personal protection is up to them, provide themselves with protection. Those that don't have only themselves to blame.~Proud NRA ~SAF~GoA Member~

  5. #164
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    Lock and load ladies and gentlemen! We are in for a bumpy ride!


    Sent from behind enemy lines.

  6. #165
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    General Armistead, for the Glory of Virginia form your brigade!
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  7. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by gejoslin View Post
    My question still stands about that system; is it still legitimate? It would seem to me it's not. What could be done to rectify it? I have no idea, I'm not a constitutional lawyer. But should something be done? Damn straight! But what and by who, I have no idea again.
    This will have to be done by men/women who know far more than I do.
    But yeah, America is on the slide and we all know we don't slide uphill.
    I guess getting that motor home and moving to the boonies is looking more appealing all the time.
    Thanks for giving more for me to chew on. Thats why I like to read your posts.
    If it comes down to "watering the tree of liberty" It will be you and I that have to do it or no one will. That said, unconstitutional laws and such still need to be enforced to pose a threat. All the cop-haters on this forum need to recognize that. Have you already seen the number of Sherriffs taking a stand against 2nd ammendment infringements? Do you really think all the DOD/DHS troops are mindless drones?
    -
    I know they have been "desensitizing" them by having them shooting at targets with a mom or grandma with a gun, but how stupid do you think they are? They already have stuff like that in video games, but it doesn't make the average American beleive it is morally acceptable.
    -
    There are plenty of right-minded employees of the federal, state and local government that will not follow morally deficient orders. Those are the people we need to unite with to make it a fair fight.

  8. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    If it comes down to "watering the tree of liberty" It will be you and I that have to do it or no one will. That said, unconstitutional laws and such still need to be enforced to pose a threat. All the cop-haters on this forum need to recognize that. Have you already seen the number of Sherriffs taking a stand against 2nd ammendment infringements? Do you really think all the DOD/DHS troops are mindless drones?
    -
    I know they have been "desensitizing" them by having them shooting at targets with a mom or grandma with a gun, but how stupid do you think they are? They already have stuff like that in video games, but it doesn't make the average American beleive it is morally acceptable.
    -
    There are plenty of right-minded employees of the federal, state and local government that will not follow morally deficient orders. Those are the people we need to unite with to make it a fair fight.
    I hope it doesn't come to that,"water the tree of Liberty". Obama's FEMA camps may get some use, right! At may age and physical condition (5 back surgeries) the "cause" won't see that much from me. But it's like Pat Henry said,
    “The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests.”
    and, “Are we at last brought to such a humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense?”

    I sure hope it doesn't come to that! The quality of life for my Grandkids and their Grandkids weigh heavy on this old mans brow.
    ~Responsible people who understand that their personal protection is up to them, provide themselves with protection. Those that don't have only themselves to blame.~Proud NRA ~SAF~GoA Member~

  9. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by gejoslin View Post
    I hope it doesn't come to that,"water the tree of Liberty". Obama's FEMA camps may get some use, right! At may age and physical condition (5 back surgeries) the "cause" won't see that much from me. I sure hope it doesn't come to that! The quality of life for my Grandkids and their Grandkids weigh heavy on this old mans brow.
    Short answer, I believe it will.

    I believe that the Rapture of the Church is going to happen with our lifetime; in fact I will be amazed if we are all still here 10 years from now. Proximate to that the 7 year period of The Tribulation begins. During the tribulation period the Bible makes it clear that the World will be under the dominion of one man who will hold absolute authority which means that no one will have any rights except the right to choose to serve Satan or God.

    I don’t see how humanity can get from here to there without losing progressively more of our freedoms and no matter how I look at it I just can’t see the good in fighting the inevitable as I’ve said before all you would be doing is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  10. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    If it comes down to "watering the tree of liberty" It will be you and I that have to do it or no one will. That said, unconstitutional laws and such still need to be enforced to pose a threat. All the cop-haters on this forum need to recognize that. Have you already seen the number of Sherriffs taking a stand against 2nd ammendment infringements? Do you really think all the DOD/DHS troops are mindless drones?
    I don't understand what you mean by "...unconstitutional laws and such still need to be enforced to pose a threat." If you mean that if they're not enforced by Constitution-loving Patriot-cops, therefore they pose no threat to the citizenry, I cannot disagree more vehemently. Cops are government officials. If cops on the beat are given authority to use their discretion on their own whim to enforce (or not) unconstitutional law, they pose as great a threat to liberty as any other authoritarian operating with no legal, enforceable limits on their authority.

    And I honestly believe that you confuse people who maintain prudent caution for such authority figures with being "cop-haters." Cops have an enormous amount of authority over our freedoms, some justified, but most, not so much. Regardless of whether or not you agree with that statement, to assume hatred as a motivation on the part of free people who question authority, especially that authority that they, in good faith, believe to be unconstitutional, is rather a gross leap of logic.Someone who truly believes in our system as-constructed, would assume nefarious intent on the abuses of authority rather than the free people who are the most vulnerable to be potential victims of it, or those who put their own liberty at risk resisting it.

    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    I know they have been "desensitizing" them by having them shooting at targets with a mom or grandma with a gun, but how stupid do you think they are? They already have stuff like that in video games, but it doesn't make the average American beleive it is morally acceptable.
    So the only desensitizing efforts you're aware of are training with inappropriate paper targets?

    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    There are plenty of right-minded employees of the federal, state and local government that will not follow morally deficient orders. Those are the people we need to unite with to make it a fair fight.
    We have two recent events to draw from that suggest to me (at least) that finding those trustworthy enough to unite with is going to be next to impossible. In both cases, one man triggered vast areas of this country to be held under virtual martial law for extended periods of time. One was the Chris Dorner manhunt, and the other the Boston Marathon bombers case. Would you agree that the cops' actions were blatantly unconstitutional in both of those cases? My analysis points to multiple constitutional violations, but I'm focusing mostly on the multitudes of searches that ensued in both cases with zero probable cause. So were all the cops that participated in the thousands of illegal searches during those two events following morally deficient orders? If they followed unconstitutional orders in conducting those thousands of searches, would that, in and of itself, constitute following morally deficient orders? Out of the many hundreds of cops who participated in days worth of unconstitutional searches between those two coast-to-coast events, have you heard of one single cop who questioned their illegal orders, much less refused to obey them?

    Keeping focused on those two events, I find it ironic that you speak of a "fair fight" against tyranny, considering that both jurisdictions control guns with as much restriction as they can get away with from an already completely usurped federal government. While the level of restriction in those jurisdictions may be in the minority among the states, they are certainly not unique, and maybe more significant, they are no longer a minority when you consider only population centers throughout the country. The states with the highest density of population also make it hardest to acquire and/or own weapons, and as the compliance with illegal searches in the two examples I'm using demonstrates, there are very few, if any, thinking about a fair fight, or any kind of fight, with the authority figures forcing them out of their homes and businesses and vehicles while searching for only one man who, in both cases, were not even in the perimeter of the area being searched in the case of Boston, and literally more than a hundred miles away from the farthest outside perimeter in the case of Dorner. And that perimeter in the case of the Dorner manhunt encompassed four counties, one of them, San Bernadino County, being the largest county in the entire Union. Maybe a bit off-track here, but the point is, in all that area, with all the unconstitutional searches going on in population centers comprised of at least 10 million citizens (I'm giving a very conservative estimate there), I have yet to hear a single report of resistance to any of it.

    The plain fact is there is neither the means nor the will to resist tyranny in this country, proven by the fact that it is already here and people are voting for Senators and paying their income taxes as though they are the most constitutional duties they are obligated to perform.

    Don't demand answers of me for what we're supposed to do about it. I have no clue. There is no legitimate system left from which to work within, and no revolution to restore or recreate one that can be successful with so few who even acknowledge the legal and moral bankruptcy we are currently living under. I just review the state of affairs and tell the truth about what I see. I leave it to others to decide for themselves if there's anything left in this country worth fighting for. So far, they have answered with their inaction a resounding and deafening, "NO!"

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  11. #170
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    Up men, UP! And to your posts! And let no man forget this day that he is from Old Virginia!!!!!!!!!


    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

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