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  1. My CCW instructor personally cleared each weapon as we entered the building and we had to leave it with the slide locked open and magazine removed throughout class. In Nevada the weapons are left with the students as part of the class is to cover cleaning and lubrication of the weapon. I know it sounds odd, however with so many newbies to buying their first firearm it does make sense. This guy shouldn't be an instructor if he doesn't follow the basics of firearms safety.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by croute View Post
    I'm NOT saying nobody should have one in the chamber. That's your choice and I don't care if you make the same mistake. However, don't badger me for siding on the safe side.
    You aren't siding on the safe side. You're needlessly risking your life because you're afraid you might have a negligent discharge someday. Nothing safe about that. But like you said before, that's your choice and I don't really care if you make that mistake.
    Posterity: you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it.--- John Quincy Adams
    Condensed Guide To Ohio Concealed Carry Laws

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by croute View Post
    I know I'm going to get crap for this, but it only increases my stance on not carrying one in the chamber. It's happened to police...
    And how many cops have decided to carry without one in the tube because of the miniscule number of negligent discharges that have happened within their ranks? (Hint: That would be none.)

    Quote Originally Posted by croute View Post
    it's happened to instructors...
    And how many of those instructors have changed their curricula to teach their students not to carry with one in the pipe? (Hint: That would be none except those who have no students because of making such a brainless decision.)

    Quote Originally Posted by croute View Post
    and many others.
    Comparatively speaking, how many others? There are more than 7.75 million concealed carriers in this country (and that's a conservative figure). The number of privately owned guns in America is in the neighborhood of 300 million. The average number of accidental gun deaths (there are no accurate figures for ND's, because the ones that don't result in injury or death are not generally reported) averages out to about 750 per year. Even if you blamed every single one of those deaths on concealed carriers and their instructors, that would work out to about 1/100th of 1% of concealed carriers/instructors that caused a death by a negligent discharge. But those same carriers/instructors spread out over the 80 million gun owners in the country works out to a little over 9/10,000ths of 1% who are responsible for deaths due to negligent discharges.

    Now, the number of ND's is obviously higher than the number of deaths caused by them. But still, just saying "and many others" is no way to compile meaningful statistics. From the numbers above, if we multiply the number of deaths spread over the 80 million gun owners by 1,000 (as an estimate of total ND's per year), we still only get to 9/10ths of 1% of negligent discharges in the entire gun-owning population of the United States.

    Besides not having exact numbers for ND's, we also have no credible estimates for how many people who carry guns are incompetent enough with firearms to carry without one in the chamber. Of those incompetent people, we also don't know how many times per year an attempt is made to chamber a round and fire in self defense. We also have no way to estimate out of those attempts, how many end up getting hurt or killed, and out of those, how many get hurt or killed with their own weapon because that extra second or two it took to chamber a round was all the attacker needed to get the gun from the incompetent CC'er and shoot 'em with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by croute View Post
    However, it obviously can't happen to you, right?
    Sure, it could happen to me, but so could it happen that I get struck by lightening, or killed by a bear in the Alabama woods, or a freakin' meteorite travels billions and billions of miles, enters the Earth's atmosphere, and burns right through my skull killing me instantly at the precise time I rip the first fart I ever let loose of that smelled just like roses, but the odds are vastly, and I do mean vastly, in my favor that none of those things will ever happen, including the negligent discharge.

    Quote Originally Posted by croute View Post
    Oh, I understand, you're not THAT stupid
    I'm not stupid enough to carry without one in the chamber, that's for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by croute View Post
    you have a lot of instruction
    More than most gun owners I know, but even at that, I've been around gun owners all my life and don't know anyone who's had an ND, so instruction and/or training isn't necessarily the determining factor. I'd venture to say in most cases, as in the case of the story in the OP, it boils down to a lapse in concentration.

    Quote Originally Posted by croute View Post
    know the rules
    That is a determining factor, and it doesn't matter if I'm in training, shooting with friends, or at the range, I demand those rules be strictly observed while I'm in shooting range, and if someone I've had to say something to about it doesn't straighten their act up, I split and go back when there's another trainer available, the friend assures me they'll do better, or the careless shooters at the range have gone.

    Quote Originally Posted by croute View Post
    plenty of practice and know how to handle a gun.
    That's right. Do you know how to handle a gun? Oh, that's right, you carry without one in the chamber, so no, you don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by croute View Post
    I guarantee you they all felt the same way until the unspeakable happened. So, it's impossible for you to make a mistake too, right?
    I got prescribed some new medication a couple of weeks ago that I had a terrible reaction to. It caused really bad diarrhea, and I made a mistake in my pants. Meh. Kind of embarrassing to admit to, but mistakes happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by croute View Post
    Before you go off like the gun did, I'm NOT saying nobody should have one in the chamber.
    Right, the tone of your post was completely accepting and supportive of 1-in-the-pipe carriers.

    Quote Originally Posted by croute View Post
    That's your choice and I don't care if you make the same mistake. However, don't badger me for siding on the safe side.
    Show us one single statistic that demonstrates carrying the way you do is safer than carrying the way almost everyone else on this site does. Fortunately for you, the incidence of a CC'er ever having to pull the trigger on a gun in defense of self or others is exceedingly rare, and the odds are in your favor that you'll never have to find out how unsafe it is for you to carry the way you do. Carrying without one in the chamber makes it safer for someone to attack you, while the odds of carrying with one in the pipe and being one of the miniscule number of dipsh!ts who allows their weapon to "spontaneously combust," well, those odds would turn a Vegas casino green with envy.....unless you just don't know how to handle a weapon, then you're making the right decision. I still hope you stay in the majority of CC'ers who never have to draw, rack, aim and fire though, because you manipulate those odds against yourself by not being a better, more confident gun handler.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by croute View Post
    I know I'm going to get crap for this, but it only increases my stance on not carrying one in the chamber. It's happened to police, it's happened to instructors and many others. However, it obviously can't happen to you, right? Oh, I understand, you're not THAT stupid, you have a lot of instruction, know the rules, plenty of practice and know how to handle a gun. I guarantee you they all felt the same way until the unspeakable happened. So, it's impossible for you to make a mistake too, right?

    Before you go off like the gun did, I'm NOT saying nobody should have one in the chamber. That's your choice and I don't care if you make the same mistake. However, don't badger me for siding on the safe side.
    If your gun isn't chambered it's not much use when attacked. You're not going to have time to rack one. So you're carrying a club not a gun. And if you're unable to get one chambered in time there's a chance that gun can be taken away.
    .
    I see where you're going wrong on this issue. You mention before we go off like the gun did. Well, guns don't "go off." People pull the trigger That's it. Inexperienced people touch the trigger when they shouldn't. You say it happens to instructors, police and others. Well, it doesn't "happen" to anyone. They cause it by violating the rules.
    .
    I don't allow students to bring any firearm into class. We work fundamentals with a blue gun. When we get to live-fire they get their guns but may not load them at the range until told to do so. Touch your gun, mag or ammo while waiting to shoot and you go home.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

  6. #25
    And.....he has done it before.
    An Ohio firearms instructor who accidentally shot one of his students this month also shot a 14-year-old girl in 1977.
    Oooops.


    Gun-safety instructor who shot student also shot girl in 1977 | Fox News
    Do Not Meddle In The Affairs Of Dragons ~ For You Are Crunchy And Good With Ketchup

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peggy Reist View Post
    And.....he has done it before.
    An Ohio firearms instructor who accidentally shot one of his students this month also shot a 14-year-old girl in 1977.
    Oooops.


    Gun-safety instructor who shot student also shot girl in 1977 | Fox News
    Wow.
    "It is not malicious acts that will do us in but the appalling silence and indifference of good people. All that is needed for evil to run rampant is for good women and men to do nothing." -MLK Jr Current Carry: Ruger SR40c

  8. #27
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    When I had to take the stupid class to get my MN permit, the rule was no guns no ammo no accessories in the classroom. Y know, to prevent stuff like this from happening.

  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peggy Reist View Post
    And.....he has done it before.
    An Ohio firearms instructor who accidentally shot one of his students this month also shot a 14-year-old girl in 1977.
    Oooops.


    Gun-safety instructor who shot student also shot girl in 1977 | Fox News
    Imbelievable! He fires his gun into a girl's leg who's on a hay-ride thinking the gun was loaded with blanks??? What the heck was he doing pointing in one of the hay-rider's direction at all even if he thought the thing was completely unloaded??? What a maroon!

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  10. #29
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    Like racism, they always prove how stupid they're are. I REALLY hate to quote a movie but " STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES"
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." --author and philosopher Ayn Rand (1905-1982)

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