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Thread: Un-bias reviews

  1. #11
    Seeing that your looking for a second strike conceal carry that rules a lot of these recommendations out.If you like the CPX 2 then that might be what you want to go with.you could call around to few gun ranges and see if any of them have one and go try it. I've never handled that particular weapon so I can't give you much info there,but if you like the way it feels and has the specifics that your looking for that's a pretty good start in my opinion.Good luck

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  3. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by handye9 View Post
    I'm looking for a compact 9MM for concealed carry. I'd like to find one that has 10 + capacity, grip fits my hand, lightweight, has second strike capability, and has accessory rail, or laser sight available. Problem is finding un-biased reviews, real specification numbers, and side by side comparisons.

    I do a google search and get all the manufacturer forums. Ask about a CPX-2 on any forum, other than SCCY, and I here they are junk. Ask about Taurus on any forum, other than Taurus, and I hear they are junk. Ask about Bersa on any forum, other than Bersa, and I hear they are junk. Etc, Etc

    Some of the possible candidates are / were:

    Taurus PT-938 (doesn't fit my hand)
    Taurus PT-111 G2 (to date, I've not held one)
    SCCY CPX-2 (fits my hand)
    Bersa Ultra Compact (to date, I've not held one. On one forum I saw a statement that said this gun is useless for CCW due to it's size, but, specs say this is a subcompact and I like the SA/DA action)
    Ruger LC9 (doesn't fit well, doesn't have second strike capability, doesn't have 10+ capacity)
    Kel-Tec PF-9 (doesn't fit well, doesn't have second strike capability, doesn't have 10+ capacity)


    Is there a place to find this kind of comparisons?
    If you are looking for the unvarnished truth on guns of all sorts, I recommend you try the magazine Gun Tests. There are NO advertisements in the publication and they accept no weapons from manufactures for testing they only test what they can go to a shop/online and can buy without any fanfare.
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    I have been subscribing since the mid-90s and look forward to every publication. Also as a subscriber you can search their archive on-line and read/print any past article back to like 2000, I think.
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    Gun Tests the consumer resource for the serious shooter.
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    Here is an example of one on 9MM weapons;

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    March 2013
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    Another Brace of Nines: Sig’s New P938 Takes on S&W Shield
    ~
    Initially, Sig’s P938 pleased us immensely, but as testing proceeded, we found it had tons of problems. So we’d pick the S&W M&P Shield over it, and save money in the bargain.
    ~




    Once again we look at a pair of small 9mm Luger handguns in our ongoing search for pocket-pistol nirvana. Both of these guns are relatively new designs, and we might mention we notice a strong trend in interest in these small backup nines, which every maker now seems to have in one or more versions. This time we have the Sig Sauer P938 Extreme ($823) and the S&W M&P Shield ($449 from FullArmorFirearms.com) on our plate. We tested them with three types of ammo, Russian WPA 115-grain FMJs, Cor-Bon Pow’Rball 100 grain, and Ultramax 127-grain round-nose cast lead. We were unable to obtain any heavy-bullet ammo for this test. Ammo is scarce these days. Here’s what we found.
    ~




    Otest pair, the S&W M&P Shield on the left and the Sig Sauer P938 on the right. They’re further examples of pocket nines we’ve been testing for several years.

    ~

    S&W M&P9 Shield No. 180021 9mm Luger, $449
    The current gun-buying mania has the street price of these rather scarce Smiths up to about $600-650 as this is written — if you can find one. There is apparently no shortage of Sig P938s, so the price difference shown here is less than it would appear on the street today.
    ~
    The Shield was a pleasant, compact, slim, nicely made handgun that grew on us. It was easy enough to get it into a pocket of reasonable dimensions, and thatright" width="100">

    ~

    The handy size of the P938. If only it had worked

    ~

    Takedown required locking the slide back and applying manly force to the takedown lever to rotate it 90 degrees. Then the slide could be let down to its normal position, the trigger pulled, and the slide comes off the front. Removing the captive double recoil spring was extremely easy. There’s no danger of parts flying across the room, or losing an eye when you put it all back together. We noted a significant fillet on the hook of the S&W’s extractor. It also had a slight pocket to help catch the incoming rounds as they feed from mag to chamber. The striker-locking safety plunger inside the slide is cammed upward by the trigger arm, which actively forces the plunger out of the way. That’s the opposite of the Sig’s design.
    ~
    On the range we found the Shield outshot the Sig with the FMJ Russian ammo and with the Cor-Bon, and about equal with the cast-bullet load in our limited testing. We had no problems at all with the Smith. The more we shot it the more we liked it. We would have liked to shoot the Shield more but winter weather was uncooperative. Rapid fire was easy, but again we’d like more traction. We noticed a bit of twisting of the gun in rapid fire, but it was nowhere near as bad as the M&P 40 Compact we just tested, even with the hot 100-grain Cor-Bon and with some 115-grain Cor-Bon loads, which we tried but didn’t record.
    ~
    Our Team Said: All in all, we liked this gun a lot. It’s near the top of our choices for nice small nines. We rated it an A- because we would still like to see more traction on the front and rear straps. We think anyone would be happy with this as their only 9mm pistol.
    ~






    Sig Sauer P938 Extreme No. 938-9-XTM-BLKGRY-AMBI 9mm Luger,$823
    The P938 comes in five finishes, one of which is called the Nightmare. Remember that name. We liked this gun immediately. When we first tried it, we though we had the best of the small nines in our hand. It had a great feel and nice workmanship. It was the ideal small size, easily pocketed, or it could be carried cocked and locked in a small holster. The slide was matte-black stainless on an aluminum frame. The grips on this Extreme-finished version, according to the website (SigSauer.com), were Hogue’s G-10 Piranhas, which means they have gouges in them in lieu of checkering. They felt and looked just fine. The front and rear straps had checkering that helped hold the gun in the right place. The P938 had steel sights dovetailed into the slide. They gave an excellent sight picture and had tritium inserts. The gun had a single-action trigger with ambi safeties. The trigger was too stiff, about 7 pounds, and we’d like it lighter. We liked the ambi safeties. They were out of the way and worked easily. But we learned the hard way to not move them upward with the gun broken down for cleaning. Suddenly we had four odd parts falling off the gun.
    ~
    Like another Sig we looked at recently, it was not a lot of fun getting this one apart for cleaning. As with the Sig P290 RS tested in November 2012, we had to hold the slide in an exact position of partial withdrawal and then poke out the cross pin, which had a spring detent. It doesn’t come out easily unless you have three hands. With the slide stop out, the slide comes off forward, and inside is the flat-wire recoil spring wrapped around a hefty mandrel, which is the guide rod. It came out easily and so did the barrel. The owner’s manual incorrectly told us to get the recoil spring back in with the correct end forward or we could break something. But the spring was symmetric from one end to the other, so that was a false warning. The manual also suggests replacing the recoil spring after 1500 rounds. Long ago some of us grew up with better guns than are made today. Their springs would last forever. Have the gun companies forgotten how to make springs? We’ve owned and shot a Colt 1860 revolver and a herd of pre-1900 Colt revolvers and a few 1873 Winchesters made back then, and all had their original springs in perfect working order. One of us has a flintlock shotgun well over 200 years old that has its original springs, and they work perfectly despite exposure to not only all the elements, in the case of the hammer (pan) spring, but also the ravages of black powder for all that time.
    ~
    Reassembly of the P938 was easy, but you had to remember to push down the spring-loaded ejector or the slide could not go on. The extended seven-round magazine would not drop free because its extension hit our hand. The six-shot mag dropped properly.
    ~
    Our initial test firing made us think we’d found the ideal small nine. Everything was great, we thought. And then the nightmare began. On our next familiarization shooting with a few dozen rounds, we had a handful of failures to fire. Inspection showed the primers were essentially untouched. One or two had the tiniest mark of the firing pin. Some rounds failed to fire from repeated strikes of the hammer. Along with the failures to fire, we had occasional failures to completely eject. Commonly the last cartridge case from the magazine would get caught and mangled on its way out.
    ~
    We thought we had figured out the problem when the first test shooter said he was not holding the gun hard. We thought his limp wrist was letting the gun fly up and grab the empties. So our Senior Technical Editor decided to hold the gun gently and let the gun kick upward and catch the outgoing empty. On the shot, the empty sailed high and wide. No problem. Then, for the last round in the gun, he gripped the gun hard with both hands. This would let the gun cycle the way it was designed, he proclaimed, and the empty case would leave the gun properly just as high and wide as had the previous one. On the shot the observer didn’t see the empty fly. We searched, and finally looked at the gun. To our amazement, the empty cartridge had been caught by the lips of the magazine and had remained in the gun. That was a first for us.
    ~
    Inspection revealed a broken extractor. It was such a clean break we couldn’t be sure at first, but comparison with other extractors indicated there should have been more meat on this one. Sig overnighted us a new extractor. The part is investment cast, lightly machined, and has a small stress relief in the form of a fillet along one side of the chunk that broke off. It doesn’t have a fillet behind the hook. We didn’t like the design, but it’s common in today’s handguns. If the extractor had been milled from a forging and heat-treated properly, it would most likely never break in a thousand years. But no one makes guns like that any more, not for $823.
    ~
    The extractor has a leg extending downward from the main body, and that leg slips behind the rim and drags out the empty. If all goes well, there’s not much work for it to do. It gently slips behind the rim as the cartridge slides into the chamber. Yet something made the old one break. Will the new one hold out? We weren’t able to shoot enough rounds to find out.
    ~
    Next was the problem of the failures to fire. In the case of failures to fire, the factory manual suggested a thorough cleaning. We pulled the firing pin (just like you’d take one out of a 1911-type 45 auto), but before we did we measured its protrusion out the back, where it is struck by the hammer. It was 0.017 inch. We measured the firing pin protrusion of several 45 autos and found them to be from 0.025 to 0.030 inch. Was the P938’s protrusion marginal?
    ~
    To check our theory, we put the firing pin in our lathe and turned eight thousandths off the base of its last bulge so that its rearward protrusion became 0.025 inch. To our dismay, we still had failures to fire. All our misfires had been with Cor-Bon ammo. We tried one round three times and it still didn’t fire, and its primer was unmarked. The other two types of test ammunition worked perfectly. Did it do any good to trim the firing pin? We don’t think it did any harm, and we much prefer the protrusion of the pin as we made it. So why didn’t it fire the Cor-Bon? We pulled the barrel and tried various types and brands of ammunition in the chamber. Each and all fit the chamber perfectly. All but the Cor-Bon fired perfectly.
    ~
    Then again we thought we found the trouble. Inside the slide is a firing-pin safety in the form of a plunger that locks the pin until a cam is moved out of the way by pressing the trigger. Then the plunger is driven downward to the firing position by a light spring. This plunger has to be fully downward to permit the firing pin to fly forward. If the plunger gets stuck upward, the firing pin cannot strike the primer. That plunger is a passive device that relies on a tiny spring to shove it down to the firing position. Most such designs are active, which means the force of squeezing the trigger pushes the device actively out of the way. Not this one. Was the plunger sticking? We thought so, so we took it out.
    ~
    We drove the rear sight out of the way, pulled out the spring and plunger, re-centered the sight, and tried the gun again. The gun still refused to fire with most of the Cor-Bon ammo. Was the firing pin getting jammed on its own spring? No, it was free. We could see no reason why the gun would not fire. The primers were unmarked. Somewhat dumbfounded, we sent for a duplicate gun to see if it would work, but it was temporarily lost by UPS, so we could conduct only limited function testing on it.
    ~
    Waiting for the second gun, we closely examined the breech face of the first one. There, we finally found the real problem. The firing-pin hole on the breech face was blocked by a plug of primer material that had been scraped off the bulging fired primer of the Cor-Bon ammo. This little plug was jammed into the firing-pin hole. It spread the force of the firing-pin strike, which didn’t even dent the primer. This, too, was a first for us. Recovered Cor-Bon cases fired in the P938 had their primers blown completely flat. They showed no trace of the firing-pin dent, but they each had a scrape across their face. The scraping action had cut off the protruding primer metal and jammed it into the breech face hole, and that blocked the firing pin.
    ~
    While the solution seems to be to avoid the otherwise excellent and time-proven Cor-Bon ammo, who is to say another brand of ammunition might not do the exact same thing? The ultimate solution is to test, test, and retest your chosen self-defense ammo. And then do it again.
    ~
    And we had another problem. We tried to insert a fresh magazine and it stopped dead, with over an inch to go. It had struck a small ledge on the magazine-release button and could not be shoved past it, no matter how hard we tried. With the mag against the inner right side of the chute, its lip hit that ledge, which stopped it completely. The problem was poor fitting of the mag release. We fixed it with a Dremel tool.
    ~
    All of us who shot this gun were pleased with how it handled our test loads (except for the Cor-Bons, of course). We could fire the gun one handed easily, and shoot it as fast as we wanted. We could not say that about most of the other small nines we’ve shot.
    ~
    Our Team Said: We would not buy this gun. It was a disappointment to have so much trouble. To start, we gave this gun a C grade. Reason: It worked well with two ammo brands, and it’s always up to the operator to function-test ammo in a defense gun. Then, as problems mounted, we grudgingly moved it to a D grade. Later, we reconsidered — unless the manufacturer warns the customer, a given gun should at least work with any good ammo. So we flunked it. Customers ought not have to deal with any of the problems we had.
    ~
    Written and photographed by Ray Ordorica, using evaluations from Gun Tests team testers. GT
    ~
    I hope you find this helpful and lets you find the answers that you seek.
    I'd rather be a Conservative Nutjob. Than a Liberal with NO Nuts & NO Job

  4. #13
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Western Kentucky
    Posts
    149
    I have a Bersa Thunder 9mm UC Pro. It's 13+1. I also have a Beretta PX4 Storm 9mm Compact. It's 15+1. They are both nice carry guns and I have never had a failure of any kind with either one of them.
    Vietnam Veteran 1966 - 1970 USASA
    Bersa Thunder 9 HC Pro - I've never had a failure of any kind with it.
    Politicians should be limited to 2 terms - One in office and one in prison.

  5. #14
    No double strik, but have you given a look to the SigSauer (also know as the stealth Sig) P2022. Comes in both 9mm & 40 S&W. It's the only Sig you can get for around $450 and has the high standards of SigSauer. I carry it in 9mm in winter, and either a Sig P239 (in 9mm) in summer, or Taurus 405 snubby in 40 S&W. I can tell you about many more decent weapons depending on you budget. Let me know!

  6. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by mperkins1116 View Post
    Have you tried the Springfield XDs? 9+1 (9mm) with extended mag. I have one in .45 for EDC and wouldn't trade it for anything.
    Hope you got you get it back soon from the recall. Pretty serious problems and you still love it.

  7. #16
    Finding an unbiased opinion should be easy. Just look for a review that's not written by a human being.

  8. #17
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Posts
    623
    Got to Hickock45's YouTube channel and watch the master.

    When you are thoroughly schooled, go buy a Glock 26.
    G'Day and G'lock

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