Road rage incident leads to deaths of 2 CPL holders.... - Page 4
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 31 to 38 of 38

Thread: Road rage incident leads to deaths of 2 CPL holders....

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Battle Creek Mi
    Posts
    1,853
    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    If making false claims and/or failing to document verifiable claims were a violation of the ToS of this site, then you'd be gone already. I don't really think either of those are violations though, and know without a doubt that nothing jcreek said is, so let's just settle this once and for all and stop with the asshattery, shall we?

    You suggested earlier that flipping the bird while driving can be proven to be an illegal act by telling me to go flip off a cop and "see what happens." Well, I don't have to do that because someone already has and the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled that the cop acted illegally for arresting and charging the flipper-offer with disorderly conduct. And just exactly like I said to you, the conviction was overturned on appeal because the flipper-offer had the 1st Amendment right to express what he thought of the cop, among other rulings of asshattery by the cop.

    Here's the ruling that was decided in January of this year.

    Here's a short summary of the case from beginning to end that was published on FindLaw.com shortly after that ruling was made, along with a couple of salient quotes below.



    That last link goes to an article chronicling an even earlier ruling (2009) on the exact same issue, middle finger, cop, illegal arrest, appeal, win for flipper-offer in federal court.

    More from the 2013 ruling summary:



    So John was illegally stopped (seized) for flipping the cop off, but actually arrested on a phony disturbing the peace charge for calling himself an "ass."

    More from the summary:



    The bold words that the 2nd Circuit used clearly state that neither the flip-off nor the word "ass" in a self-deprecatory utterance were criminal activity.

    So the ruling of the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals is Sheldon, that you're out of gas on this topic. If you call the cops for nothing more than being flipped off and report that alone as an act of road rage, you are making a false report, and if the person who flipped you off knows how to search the internet and find out that it was illegal for you to have made that report like I just did, they will get your name in the discovery from the prosecution when they fight whatever bogus charge the cops decide to foist upon them. They will then sue the pants off of you, the cop, the City/County that arrested, charged and prosecuted them, and they will win with the 2nd Circuit being their #1 witness (as precedent) for the defense.

    Now, I only cited the 2nd Circuit here. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to find that similar rulings can be found in all 13 Circuits, and perhaps even the Supreme Court. I just clicked on the very first link after searching for "flipping the bird and the law." In that one link, there are links to two other similar cases, both holding the same truism: The 1st Amendment protects a citizen's right to express themselves, even if the expression might be insulting and/or profane, even if the expression is directed towards a cop (with some restrictions in that case, but none of them relating to a simple flipping of the bird towards cops), and even if the bird was flipped unprovoked.

    The above is how you document a claim you're making, Sheldon, with links and citations that are verifiably true and accurate.

    Next.

    Blues
    Most Interesting story, it's defiantly not a criminal activity but there are other issues at hand when it involves "Aggressive driving". As as we all know laws vary widely depending on state, county, and city, heck I would be willing to bet someplace it is some kind of civil infraction for passing gas in the presence of a officer of the law..
    Not to mention how may of us have read stories WRT guns of judges rendering personal opinion other than law, and we all know that would / could never happen in other cases...

    Quote Originally Posted by jcreek View Post
    Wow. As a licensed pilot myself (albeit only private) this is scary. It's also scary that the UK has a threshold for alcohol consumption for commercial pilots. In the US the legal limit is 0 for any type of pilot. If fact, it's a federal crime to consume any alcohol within 8 hours of flight as a private pilot, 12 hours as a commercial (cargo or shuttle pilot), and 24 hours as an airline transport pilot (carrying 50 or more passengers).
    +1 taking of prescription drugs, or even non prescription is regulated for pilots, heck I bet even energy drinks are on the FAA watch list..
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century
    "Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out!" Father John Corapi.

  2.   
  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by jcreek View Post
    Wow. As a licensed pilot myself (albeit only private) this is scary. It's also scary that the UK has a threshold for alcohol consumption for commercial pilots. In the US the legal limit is 0 for any type of pilot. If fact, it's a federal crime to consume any alcohol within 8 hours of flight as a private pilot, 12 hours as a commercial (cargo or shuttle pilot), and 24 hours as an airline transport pilot (carrying 50 or more passengers).
    .
    This is incorrect. Title 14 CFR 91.17 reads:
    .
    § 91.17 Alcohol or drugs.
    (a) No person may act or attempt to
    act as a crewmember of a civil aircraft—
    (1) Within 8 hours after the consumption of any alcoholic beverage;
    (2) While under the influence of alcohol;
    (3) While using any drug that affects
    the person’s faculties in any way contrary to safety; or
    (4) While having an alcohol concentration of 0.04 or greater in a blood
    or breath specimen. Alcohol concentration means grams of alcohol per deciliter of blood or grams of alcohol per
    210 liters of breath.
    .
    This includes airline transport pilots flying for commercial airlines. Most airlines that I am aware of have stricter company policies with respect to alcohol use. The airline's operating certificate includes an FAA approval of it's operating procedures, and crewmember alcohol & drug policies fall under that requirement. So if you bust your company's stricter policy, you have also busted with the FAA.

  4. #33

    Road rage incident leads to deaths of 2 CPL holders....

    I was unaware that we had a limit too. I know the FARs word it differently than that but since I haven't flown (or read the FARs) in about 3 years due to the cost, I'm a little rusty. I was pretty sure the 24 hours for ATP was federal regs and not just company policy but I could be wrong.

  5. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Republic of Dead Cell Holler, Occupied Territories of AL, former USA
    Posts
    7,419
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon View Post
    Most Interesting story...
    What do you mean by "story?" I didn't tell a "story," I documented what I had to say with a court case, which refutes your story that flipping somebody off, even a cop, is "road rage, pure plane [sic] and simple." Now you're calling my documentation a "story?" I've implied it before, but now I'm going to say it outright, you make it obvious in this thread why (apparently) so many people flip you off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon View Post
    it's defiantly not a criminal activity but there are other issues at hand when it involves "Aggressive driving".
    Nope, not gonna let you get away with that. The issue wasn't "aggressive driving," it was, and since you won't cop to being so utterly wrong about it, still is about your answer to the question by K7lvo:

    Quote Originally Posted by K7lvo View Post
    You call 911 if someone FLIPS YOU OFF???

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon View Post
    Yes I do, it is road rage pure plane and simple and often will lead to other forms of agression... so be safe rather than sorry.
    You said that flipping someone off was, in and of itself, road rage, and real road rage is a crime.

    So which is it Sheldon? Is flipping someone off "defiantly [sic] not criminal activity" or is it "road rage pure plane [sic] and simple?" Pick one and stick with it, and then if it doesn't comport with the court case I provided as documentation for my assertion that there's nothing whatsoever illegal about flipping someone off, then document the legal basis for your position, just like I did with mine. That's how it's supposed to work on a discussion forum, Sheldon.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  6. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Battle Creek Mi
    Posts
    1,853
    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStringer View Post
    What do you mean by "story?" I didn't tell a "story," I documented what I had to say with a court case, which refutes your story that flipping somebody off, even a cop, is "road rage, pure plane [sic] and simple." Now you're calling my documentation a "story?" I've implied it before, but now I'm going to say it outright, you make it obvious in this thread why (apparently) so many people flip you off.
    Yes it was a story, news worthy, well doccumeted, but only a story... Only one so far, and actually it was my youngest daughter driving. I was a passenger in the back seat, she was 18 at the time and we were on a cross country trip. Light traffic she was doing the limit in the rught lane, when this guy in a red PU pulled up tight to her door, laid on the horn and yelled something, and fliped her off, yelled again and repeat, then cut her off.. there were other reasons for the call and this one was in Oregon and yes he was 911'd and yes I saw the police pull him over as he exited the freeway... Who knows maybe they had other complaints on him it almost looked like they were waiting on the bozo as responce was about 5 minutes from my call and his exit...

    Nope, not gonna let you get away with that. The issue wasn't "aggressive driving," it was, and since you won't cop to being so utterly wrong about it, still is about your answer to the question by K7lvo:



    You said that flipping someone off was, in and of itself, road rage, and real road rage is a crime.



    So which is it Sheldon? Is flipping someone off "defiantly [sic] not criminal activity" or is it "road rage pure plane [sic] and simple?" Pick one and stick with it, and then if it doesn't comport with the court case I provided as documentation for my assertion that there's nothing whatsoever illegal about flipping someone off, then document the legal basis for your position, just like I did with mine. That's how it's supposed to work on a discussion forum, Sheldon.

    Blues
    it is a misnomer in some jurisdictions, as is road rage, crime yes, but I would not go as far as calling it criminal...

    edit someone asked about the Defensive carry forum.. http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/forum.php
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century
    "Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out!" Father John Corapi.

  7. "I 911 anyone that exhibits road rage, tailgates, drives erratically, crosses over the fog line multiple times, drives distracted, keeps hitting the rumble strips or the rocks on the edge, flips me the bird, in short mess up and you will get to talk to the police..."
    Geez, you'd be on the phone ALL the time around here. The dispatcher would block your calls. Add in farm equipment, overwidth loads, and a couple of blue haired ladies who can't see over the dash and you'll be a hazard for being on the phone.

  8. #37
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Battle Creek Mi
    Posts
    1,853
    Wow not sure where you are, but here I have not seen the bird out of another driver in a dogs age.

    Now old women that cant see over the dash, people that drive off the road and throw stones all over the place because they are texting (texting is illegal here and a huge fine), are DUI, or a local favorite in town on warm evenings people will block off streets, set up tables in the road, and play B ball or something else, tis not too bad when you only have to detour a block or so to get by but one time I had to go over 7 blocks just to find a way around... that stuff is as common as flies in a barn yard around here.

    It is harvet time and you will see the occasional mulit axle tractor that blocks both sides of the narow country roads, (most are real nice about pulling over and letting cars pass). One time though one of those high field sprayers that a car could drive under.... On the bike and I was sorely tempted to fly under but resisted the temptation....
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century
    "Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out!" Father John Corapi.

  9. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Republic of Dead Cell Holler, Occupied Territories of AL, former USA
    Posts
    7,419
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon View Post
    .... On the bike and I was sorely tempted to fly under but resisted the temptation....
    Wow Sheldon, was that you?


















    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Quantcast