Experience with violation of 18 USC 930(a)
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Thread: Experience with violation of 18 USC 930(a)

  1. Experience with violation of 18 USC 930(a)

    My wife and i have a query regarding a issue with the above law.

    We moved this weekend from one apartment to another in the same building. My wife has one SW .38 revolver that I have gifted her. She doesn't have a CCL, but I do and CC other weapons on a daily basis.

    I had accountability of all my firearms and ammo. I asked my wife to stick her 38 in her purse for the move because I didn't trust the strangers in my home. This was after all my weapons were secured in the new house.

    Fast forward to Monday (yesterday) when my wife went into work with the 38 still in her large bag. This is a typical ladies bag with everything under the sun in it so a 15oz loaded 38 is hard to feel. The kicker is that I am active duty Army and she is a contractor in a federal facility. She was stopped, searched, and cited with a violation of the above code. On our doors to the building there was no sign stating the violation warnings, she was unknowing of the weapon per the code, and had No intent of hostility towards anyone in the building.

    We have hired aLawyer and are going to fight this.

    Anyone else know a case similar?

    Thanks in advance

    Mr TC Owens

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  3. #2
    Join Date
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    Kentucky
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    Not a lawyer.

    But, it's fairly common knowledge that ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking a law. Easy to say, but very hard to live by since we live in a society that loves to promulgate laws and regulations.

    Not sure where you live, but as a CCL holder, I assume you've had some classroom training relating to the law concerning where you can carry and where you can not. Federal facilities are always at the top of that list.

    Now, I realize that she is not a CCL, but the federal facility prohibition is fairly well known.

    I'm actually rather surprised she wasn't taken into custody.

  4. #3
    Yes, I have experience with a similar situation. You have a fairly serious problem on your hands. In most instances, to be convicted of a felony, intent must be shown however, this particular statute is of a variety called a strict liability crime in which the government does not have to prove intent. There doesn't appear to be a defense available to you, however, if you have hired a lawyer that practices in the area of federal crimes, he may be able to prevail on the prosecution to dismiss the case. Of course, this is further complicated by the recent shooting spree on a military base.

  5. #4
    ezkl2230 Guest
    She doesn't have a CPL but you, presumably knowing the law since you have a CPL and knowing that she could not legally carry the weapon concealed, had her put the .38 in her bag anyway (you couldn't find ANY OTHER WAY to legally secure or carry this firearm?!), YOU neglected to remind her that she had the firearm in her bag (after all, as the CPL holder, the responsibility rests with you as the one who instructed her to carry it illegally in the first place), she went into a federal facility carrying said firearm and got pinched doing it - this after the recent Navy Yard shooting.

    I assume that the ONLY reason she wasn't locked up is because they figured out that she had no intent, for which you can be INCREDIBLY thankful.

    As for fighting the charges, you had better have one high-powered attorney. I will be interested to see if you keep your CPL given your role in this situation. This may sound a bit harsh, but since I see no no remorse evidenced in your posting - only a desire to fight widely known federal laws that prohibit the unauthorized carry of firearms into a federal facility, how does it feel to know that you jeopardized your wife's employment, any security clearance she might hold, and possibly her freedom by asking her to violate the law in this manner?

    This is an interesting first post.

  6. Thanks for all your comments. This was just a inquiry as to others experience in this manner.

    Not all the facts were presented in this post. Thank you for your insights.

    TC

  7. #6
    I agree with ezkl2230's comments here. Frankly, you should have known better. Hiring an attorney was a very good choice, I hope for your wife's sake he/she is a really good one. This will cost you a pretty shiny penny, but with what appears to be lack of intent you will probably avoid a felony conviction. Maybe. At the very least, I doubt you'll get that firearm back. Hopefully your wife is not dismissed from her job over this.

  8. #7
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezkl2230 View Post
    She doesn't have a CPL but you, presumably knowing the law since you have a CPL and knowing that she could not legally carry the weapon concealed, had her put the .38 in her bag anyway (you couldn't find ANY OTHER WAY to legally secure or carry this firearm?!), YOU neglected to remind her that she had the firearm in her bag (after all, as the CPL holder, the responsibility rests with you as the one who instructed her to carry it illegally in the first place), she went into a federal facility carrying said firearm and got pinched doing it - this after the recent Navy Yard shooting.
    Good grief there's a lot of taking stuff for granted here.

    1) It may not have been illegal for her to have the weapon concealed as they were simply walking on private property from one apartment to another. There's no legal violation that I can imagine there, whether or not she has a permission slip. There might be a property owner's policy violation, but no legal one that I can think of.

    2) Where in the law does it say that the "responsibility rests" with a third party who wasn't even there when the violation was discovered? Lacking proof of some nefarious conspiracy between husband and wife to commit a crime, that is the antithesis of constitutional law!

    3) Since when is an adult in this country not responsible for their actions just because another adult "instructed" them to do something?

    4) Why should or would the recent Navy Yard shooting have any bearing on the outcome of a case that is clearly borne of an honest mistake?

    Quote Originally Posted by ezkl2230 View Post
    As for fighting the charges, you had better have one high-powered attorney. I will be interested to see if you keep your CPL given your role in this situation.
    His "role?" You mean the part where he says, "Hey Honey, can you grab that and carry it over to the new apartment" and she forgot about it after she got there? You're suggesting there actually was some nefarious conspiracy between them. My goodness, you're letting your imagination get away from you.

    Quote Originally Posted by ezkl2230 View Post
    This may sound a bit harsh, but since I see no no remorse evidenced in your posting - only a desire to fight widely known federal laws that prohibit the unauthorized carry of firearms into a federal facility, how does it feel to know that you jeopardized your wife's employment, any security clearance she might hold, and possibly her freedom by asking her to violate the law in this manner?
    It does indeed sound harsh. We all "fight widely known federal laws" concerning guns, or if we don't, we're on the wrong damned website. Not that the OP was doing anything of the sort intentionally, but still.....you do "fight widely known federal" gun laws on a fairly regular basis, don't you?

    And remind us again how asking someone to transport a weapon from one apartment to another, all on private property, is "violating the law."

    Quote Originally Posted by ezkl2230 View Post
    This is an interesting first post.
    And answering that last question without saying "Oops" should be interesting to watch too.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  9. #8
    Mugler v. Kansas 123 U.S. 623, 659-60.
    "Our system of government, based upon the individuality and intelligence
    of the Citizen, the state does not claim to control him, except as his
    conduct to others, leaving him the sole judge as to all that only affects
    himself."

    Supreme Law School : E-mail : Box 036 : Msg 03678
    The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday

  10. #9
    Your only real defense is 18 USC 930 (h). However, being a contractor, I'm willing to bet she signed a statement that firearms were not allowed so the part in bold will negate the defense. Good luck.

    (h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  11. #10
    That's one heck of an oops! Though having used a gigantic purse when my kid was a baby (in HI, no guns), I can see how things could get lost in it. Not sure how you don't remember a gun... but moving can be stressful, I suppose.

    No advice, but... good luck. Think you'll need it!
    Modern Whig
    "Government is not meant to burden Liberty but rather to secure it." -T.J. O'Hara

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