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Thread: Was I wrong

  1. #41
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    Feb 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Rakes View Post
    WOLF-FIRE, i really didn't think about it but there are some very common ground with what happened to me, and what happened to the OP.
    if i had minded my own business and left, even though i had every legal right to be there, he would have not wanted to try and scare me. also there were victims in both cases. the stolen ring did come from someone. i know that there are a lot of antis on here that think that you should have the duty to flee, but i say if you are in a place that you have the legal right to be. then you do have the right to protect yourself

    PEGGY, it is not a hard stretch to see the attack coming from someone staring (or maybe looking hard). a thug would do this. remember what happened to George Zimmerman, he was just watching someone when he was attacked

    it really doesn't matter if this is real or not. the OP set up a scenario for us to comment on. a discussion is always good. there are people that could learn from it
    Did I once mention anything concerning his right to defend himself? No. Since you decided that this is important, let me respond on that issue. If he had just let the cops get the stolen merchandise in the first place, rather than help his friend retrieve stolen merchandise on their own, then there would have been no confrontation. His actions preempted that. If he hadn't been staring down the drug abuser the drug abuser wouldn't have picked him out of all the people that were milling around. His presence was not necessary in any way shape or form in this situation. His presence and his decision to take the law into their own hands to retrieve stolen merchandise is what put him in a situation where he almost had to use deadly force. The smart thing to have done is let the police handle this situation.

    I am all for defending yourself when necessary... but I am more in favor of not creating situations in which that may happen. I'm also an advocate of minimizing situations. Why go to the trailer in the first place with his friend? What does that help? Nothing. Now he is there... he gets out of the car. Why? He stands in the street starting down the drug abuser. Why? What does that help? Nothing. Mudhumper elevated a situation, he didn't create it, but he didn't lessen it either.

    You on the other hand tried to help a person in need who was stranded. An admirable thing to do. You had no reason to think or fear that someone would come after you for helping a woman. Now some crazed lunatic comes after you, absolutely, you need to defend yourself in that situation. But you didn't help create that situation. You weren't there looking for a fight. The only reason that makes any sense for Mudhumper to follow his friend is to act as the muscle. He stared the drug abuser down and imagine that a drug abuser didn't act rational. Completely avoidable and wasn't helpful in the least. Your situation was helpful and the situation with her ex was UNavoidable. Completely different scenarios.

    Also, Mudhumper's original question: was he wrong, not was he right. As I've said, and Paul_of_TX said well, one can be legally right while doing the wrong thing. This is where Mudhumper is with his actions. You on the other hand did the right thing (helped out a lady in need) and were legally right as well. Mudhumper wasn't there to "help" his friend. A friend can knock on someone's door all by themselves when taking the law into their own hands. This should have been a police matter from the get go. It was not Mudhumper's jewlery and there was no reason for him to be there except intimidation factor, regardless of how "legal" it is to stand in the street.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

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  3. #42
    (A friend can knock on someone's door all by themselves/ It was not Mudhumper's jewelry and there was no reason for him to be there except intimidation factor) I do a lot of buying and selling on Craiges list, I do not go alone, it is not being the Muscle it's being prepared for the unexpected. Bad things happen every day. I went with my friend because he asked, yes could be a bad situation but I am there just incase a friend needs me. Same as buying on craiges list, it could be a bad situation so do you not go because it could turn into a bad situation. You may not, but I do. That's your right. Their are bad people everywhere you go, its called being Careful. I am not a bad A$$ or think I am. I am cautious, prepared there is a difference. Why is every talking about my spelling Wolf posted (jewlery) its (jewelry) pick on him WTF seriously how old are we here. And wolf it can be both. Always carry ever since I've been old enough to carry a weapon. Been to that trailer park without a gun before old enough to have one. That is possible. My credibility is fine your ignorance just got shown!!! Think before you speak!!!

  4. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudhumper View Post
    Its funny how the Sherriff agreed I did nothing wrong after hearing the facts. Maybe Mr Instructor You should read up on the laws better you say I should lose my CHP. For what? Maybe not the best place to be but like I said no law broken and you think I should lose my CHP what kind of Instructor are you. You should lose you Privilege to teach people on laws you don't firmly understand yourself. JUST MY OPIONION Thanks Chris Are we truly on the side of the criminals. Lets stay away from there because its bad. Lets not look at someone because they may take it the wrong way. I have the right in this great nation to walk and go were I want. Look and stare at what I wish. People don't have a right to pull a knife and try to kill you because they just fill like it. I asked was I wrong. Maybe put my self in a situation but didn't break any laws There forth not wrong! I work, I pay my taxes, member of the NRA, kids in boy scouts, I would help anyone in trouble with out regards to my life. And Mr. Instructor says I should lose my CHP Your a twisted kind of American.
    I know the laws thoroughly. There is as an tremendous responsibility with having a CHP. While you didn't do anything illegal, and I never said you did, you did act extremely irresponsibly.

    You should lose it for being STUPID.
    NRA Life Member
    NRA Certified Instructor (Pistol & Personal Defense in the Home)
    North Carolina Concealed Carry Instructor

  5. #44
    Like I Said Your a twisted kind of American. Take someone's rights away for what you believe is stupid but not for breaking the law. Are you sure your part of the NRA they should take your membership away for being a Jack A$$ You sound like a Democrat. I fell sorry for the people you instruct.

  6. #45
    This is what Mr. Instructor writes in other post. (I am opposed to any restriction of our 2A rights in any form. If that means a few people gain firearms that probably shouldn't have them, I will gladly take that risk. There are risks associated with our 2A rights. Rights do not guarantee safety. They guarantee freedom.) BUT YOU WOULD TAKE SOMEONES RIGHTS AWY BECAUSE YOU THINK THEIR STUPID BUT DIDN'T BREAK ANY LAWS YOU ARE SUCH A HYPOCRITE!!!!!!!!!

  7. Midsummer, you are not listening. Everyone here is concerned about your safety and the safety of the people you interact with. It is IMO not a question of were you wrong, who cares if you were right or wrong. We really hope that you live a very long and prosperous life. I beg you to embrace the wisdom that has been imparted to you here.

    Sent from my ZTE V768 using Tapatalk 2

  8. Sorry about calling you Midsummer instead of Mudslinger. My apologies. Oh has purposely check and I am not used to it. God Speed

    Sent from my ZTE V768 using Tapatalk 2

  9. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudhumper View Post
    This is what Mr. Instructor writes in other post. (I am opposed to any restriction of our 2A rights in any form. If that means a few people gain firearms that probably shouldn't have them, I will gladly take that risk. There are risks associated with our 2A rights. Rights do not guarantee safety. They guarantee freedom.) BUT YOU WOULD TAKE SOMEONES RIGHTS AWY BECAUSE YOU THINK THEIR STUPID BUT DIDN'T BREAK ANY LAWS YOU ARE SUCH A HYPOCRITE!!!!!!!!!
    What we have here, is a failure to communicate. Quotes from the movie Cool-Hand Luke aside, I really mean it. At first I leaned towards agreeing with wolf_fire and Pir8fan and others that the answer to your question was yes, you were wrong. I don't know if it's your typing skills (or lack thereof) or just a kind of belligerence that you really do have, but I had to really try to get the details of what happened out of your posts to understand them through a kind of 'tude that made it harder than it really needs to be. But I got through it and have to say that no, you didn't do anything wrong.

    I've spent a fair amount of time in armed security, five years of it driving and couriering hundreds of thousands of dollars in and out of an armored truck. Another job was as a guard for a very low-rent (read: ghetto) apartment complex. In both jobs I had to deal with sketchy people and go to sketchy parts of town. I would no more turn down a request from a friend to do the same thing than I would my boss(es). There's some wisdom in the thought that cops should have been involved from the beginning, but then again, cops would be the last call I would make in most circumstances too.

    If I have the right to be somewhere and someone comes at me with a knife for nothing more than a sideways glance, you're damned skippy I'll brandish at the very least, if not draw down and be ready to fire unless the advance turns into retreat about the same instant my weapon clears leather.

    It seems to me that some are paying too much attention to extraneous factoids or perceived attitude rather than focusing only on the facts that would either justify the brandishing or make it an illegal act. If it's justified, end of story, and the Sheriff has already said it was, so why the continued argumentation?

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  10. #49
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    I believe the continued argumentation stems from he wants the majority in the thread to agree that he was perfectly justified in all aspects of the situation. I don't believe there was one person throughout this thread who said what was done was illegal (I'd have to reread, but I believe most said as such)... but that was never the question that was raised, even though that was argumentation raised afterward. His initial query was, 'was he wrong in what he did.'

    Blues, I have to agree, if a friend had to go to a sketchy area, you bet your bippy I'd be right there with him covering his arse. However, as the events were given to us in this thread, I am convinced it was bravado and huffed egos that led these two to "take care of business". They did not have to go to this shady person's trailer. They chose to. This in my opinion, was their first and biggest mistake. With the adamant defense Mudhumper has given about how right he was, he seemed to already have the answer to his question in his own mind and wanted to challenge anyone who thought differently. He is thoroughly convinced he did absolutely nothing wrong. I'm actually very confused by his demeanor through the thread as to why he even asked anyone's opinion in the first place.

    If his question really meant, was he wrong to brandish his weapon at that moment and time, that is is a whole other question. By this point, he had put himself in a stupid situation that got out of hand. Of course he had to keep himself from getting stabbed. Most of the posters on this thread have mentioned though, he never should have been there in the first place. Sure, he was legal to be. But being legal and being smart are two way different things. He was wrong for not being smart. This matter was much better left to the police especially with the damning evidence of the Craig's List post.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  11. One of my greatest concerns in practicing CC is to not let the weapon on my hip tinge my judgement towards taking or ignoring a risk that upon consideration I may avoid or circumvent were I not armed. If it's not a good idea empty handed it's likely not a good idea with your weapon, unless in defense of yourself or an innocent party as in the case of the member who rightfully assisted the woman. There are so many what if's we can't possibly cover them all. Under the laws, terms and conditions of the CCW permits I hold (Nevada, Utah, and Florida) showing or displaying your weapon (other than full on presentation in self defense) for any reason is grounds for immediate revocation of the permit and possible charges of "brandishing". The proper response to the druggie approaching you with a drawn blade and verbal threats to use it warrants an immediate presentation of your weapon at the ready (pointed towards his feet) with a very loud and clear command to "STOP". If he continues and ignores your command then the immediate response is two rounds center mass and immediate assessment of a continued threat from him as well as those around you, then your 911 call. If he stops, then you withdraw with caution and reholster your weapon when safe, and leave the immediate area and follow with a 911 call.

    I believe your judgement in placing yourself in the situation you found yourself was tainted by friendship and good intentions. However, in my opinion when he approached you as you described with a knife in hand and verbal threat, your response was improper, sloppy, and dangerous to all involved. You may argue that showing your weapon was sufficient to stop the threat, however what if he suddenly pressed the attack and random mayhem ensued to all around or present as a result. I seriously doubt if any of your actions or choices would be seen as favorable to you in a court of law. Forget race since it isn't in play here, you may well still suffer a "Zimmerman" experience. Just my opinion. Be safe everyone.

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