Concealed vs Open carry - Page 9
Page 9 of 12 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 115

Thread: Concealed vs Open carry

  1. #81
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Pasco, Washington, United States
    Posts
    6,271
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

  2.   
  3. Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Dollar View Post
    Not reported and never haqppened are not synonyms
    Do you know why the rate of burglaries of homes that are occupied is much lower in the US than in the UK? Criminals themselves say it is because they are afraid of getting shot by the homeowner - a fear they don't have in the UK. Do you know why in the majority of cases where a gun is used in self-defense, the gun is only shown and not fired? Because criminals do not want to be shot during the commission of their crime. 60% of criminals said they would not attack a target KNOWN to be armed, 40% of criminals said they would not attack a target they thought might be armed. Why? Simply due to the overwhelming number of targets available that are likely not to be armed.

    I can't do anything that will guarantee I won't ever be attacked by a criminal. But the simple statistical history and data shows that more often then not when a gun is introduced into the scenario in self defense the criminal runs away from that gun. If they see that I am armed during target selection, odds are they will just pick a target one block down the street or wait 5 minutes for an unarmed (or at least not visibly) target to appear, which 99.5% of targets will not be visibly armed. If they don't see my gun during target selection, then I still have the advantage over concealed carry in that I can carry a larger, higher capacity gun openly and I don't have to retrieve my gun from concealment in order to use it. I see no reason not to play odds that history indicates are in my favor based upon internet theories that have nearly 0% real life evidence to support them.

    You can choose how to carry your firearm however you want to based on whatever theories you use to justify it. The simple truth is there are facts and history available to indicate your theories are false.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Do you know why the rate of burglaries of homes that are occupied is much lower in the US than in the UK? Criminals themselves say it is because they are afraid of getting shot by the homeowner - a fear they don't have in the UK. Do you know why in the majority of cases where a gun is used in self-defense, the gun is only shown and not fired? Because criminals do not want to be shot during the commission of their crime. 60% of criminals said they would not attack a target KNOWN to be armed, 40% of criminals said they would not attack a target they thought might be armed. Why? Simply due to the overwhelming number of targets available that are likely not to be armed.

    I can't do anything that will guarantee I won't ever be attacked by a criminal. But the simple statistical history and data shows that more often then not when a gun is introduced into the scenario in self defense the criminal runs away from that gun. If they see that I am armed during target selection, odds are they will just pick a target one block down the street or wait 5 minutes for an unarmed (or at least not visibly) target to appear, which 99.5% of targets will not be visibly armed. If they don't see my gun during target selection, then I still have the advantage over concealed carry in that I can carry a larger, higher capacity gun openly and I don't have to retrieve my gun from concealment in order to use it. I see no reason not to play odds that history indicates are in my favor based upon internet theories that have nearly 0% real life evidence to support them.

    You can choose how to carry your firearm however you want to based on whatever theories you use to justify it. The simple truth is there are facts and history available to indicate your theories are false.
    Can we please provide reputable, factual, and scientifically based data for our assertions, be they OC biased or CC biased? I've yet to see anyone substantiate their passionate opinions on either side. Enough already, proclaim fact and document it with legitimate scientific resources, or simply state it as opinion and run with that. OC and CC are both honorable choices depending on ones preference and abilities. Can we concentrate on the true enemies of 2A our rights???

  5. #84
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    The Lowcountry of South Carolina
    Posts
    2,039
    Quote Originally Posted by chilipeppernorm View Post
    Can we please provide reputable, factual, and scientifically based data for our assertions, be they OC biased or CC biased? I've yet to see anyone substantiate their passionate opinions on either side. Enough already, proclaim fact and document it with legitimate scientific resources, or simply state it as opinion and run with that. OC and CC are both honorable choices depending on ones preference and abilities. Can we concentrate on the true enemies of 2A our rights???
    Just look at any news story where someone was attacked in public AND defended themselves with a gun. The NRA's "The Armed Citizen" stories are a nationwide archive of such "good guy wins" stories. An overwhelming number of these stories center around the CONCEALED CARRIER. I don't recall ever seeing one where an OPEN CARRIER was attacked and defended themselves. If you can find any stories where an open carrier was attacked please post it.
    Chief

  6. #85
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Pasco, Washington, United States
    Posts
    6,271
    Quote Originally Posted by whodat2710 View Post
    Just look at any news story where someone was attacked in public AND defended themselves with a gun. The NRA's "The Armed Citizen" stories are a nationwide archive of such "good guy wins" stories. An overwhelming number of these stories center around the CONCEALED CARRIER. I don't recall ever seeing one where an OPEN CARRIER was attacked and defended themselves. If you can find any stories where an open carrier was attacked please post it.
    Www.gunssavelives.net is another website dedicated to self defense stories. Same results there as well.

    If navy gets to a computer again soon, I'm sure he can link to the study were they interviewed inmates about how they choose their victims.
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

  7. #86
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Republic of Dead Cell Holler, Occupied Territories of AL, former USA
    Posts
    7,421
    Quote Originally Posted by chilipeppernorm View Post
    Can we please provide reputable, factual, and scientifically based data for our assertions, be they OC biased or CC biased? I've yet to see anyone substantiate their passionate opinions on either side. Enough already, proclaim fact and document it with legitimate scientific resources, or simply state it as opinion and run with that. OC and CC are both honorable choices depending on ones preference and abilities. Can we concentrate on the true enemies of 2A our rights???
    Here's your original post:

    Quote Originally Posted by chilipeppernorm View Post
    Ok, I did a search but didn't find this exact topic. If it already exists my apology to all. I have a non-resident CCW for Nevada, Utah, and Florida, and hopefully will acquire a resident permit for CA (not holding my breath). I do have a question, but before I pose it I want to make sure all know that I'm not questioning the right or preference of anyone who chooses open carry. I can see any number of circumstances where open carry convenience may prevail. However, from my perspective I believe that open carry in many public situations, areas, or venues one could be forfeiting a valuable tactical advantage. Simply put, I don't want the general public to know I'm armed, just want to appear as "joe lunchbox" and be mostly ignored unless I have to present my weapon in defense of myself or others, which should be a complete surprise to all and give me that slight edge.

    I'm looking for rationales I may have overlooked, but please know that there is no need for anyone to "defend" their choice as I'm not challenging nor criticizing that choice. Thanks in advance.
    But now Navy (and apparently others) are talking out their ass by giving you their rationale and (temporarily) neglecting to link to the study he mentioned? Because believe me, I've watched Navy's posting style and history very carefully, and you're about to be hoisted by your own petard by suggesting that his referring to a study is not "factual" or "scientific" or "reputable." You may or may not have picked up on it, but NavyLCDR is currently deployed on an aircraft carrier and is kind of busy between posts here at USA Carry. He has never failed (that I've ever seen) to provide sourcing and links when asked. He usually provides them without having to be asked, so my bet is that he didn't have much time, or maybe his internet connection wasn't reliable enough to spend time digging out links wherever he was in the world when he made the post.

    But whatever, you asked for rationales for OC, not "scientific based" studies or any other *proof* of the prudence of OC'ers' choices. Your "element of surprise" meme was blown out of the water in Post #5 by Bikenut. His rationale is flawlessly articulated. He gave you exactly what you asked for, as has Firefighterchen and NavyLCDR and others. Now you're whining because your *rationale* for thinking you ever had any *edge* or "element of surprise" to begin with has been completely debunked, so you move the goal-posts and demand in a highly frustrated sounding post that OC'ers provide virtual *proof* that the same rationale that you asked for works as their rationale(s) claim.

    Tell ya what, you provide proof that CC has real tactical and deterrent advantages over OC, and then we'll talk about proving our positions to you. If you're going to move the goal posts, you get to return the kick-off on the new playing field. Fair 'nuff?

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  8. Quote Originally Posted by chilipeppernorm View Post
    Can we please provide reputable, factual, and scientifically based data for our assertions, be they OC biased or CC biased? I've yet to see anyone substantiate their passionate opinions on either side. Enough already, proclaim fact and document it with legitimate scientific resources, or simply state it as opinion and run with that. OC and CC are both honorable choices depending on ones preference and abilities. Can we concentrate on the true enemies of 2A our rights???
    The citation to the facts that I posted earlier are found here:
    Gun Facts - Gun Control | Facts | Debunk | Myths

    in this document:
    http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-fa...6-2-screen.pdf

    I don't have the bandwidth out here at sea to download the document itself, but the facts are in there. The majority of criminals will avoid situations where they might get shot. Most criminals still have the human instinct of survival that overrides most other behaviors. The reason criminals will take guns from cops (a common argument used by the concealed carry only crowd) is the exact same instinct for survival. They don't takes guns from cops in order to just obtain a gun. They take guns from cops in order to use it to escape arrest. Average Joe Criminal isn't going to rush into a convenience store with a police car parked outside to rob the cash register, they will wait for the police to leave, or find another convenience store. There are just too many easier ways for criminals to get what they want then to attack the .5% of the population who is visibly displaying the means to kill them. Again there are no guarantees - but since there are no guarantees, I will play the odds that are in my favor of not being targeted by the criminal to begin with by showing my gun rather than playing the odds that I will be successful in a self-defense attempt because they attack me because with my gun hidden I look like every other Joe Target on the street.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  9. #88
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Republic of Dead Cell Holler, Occupied Territories of AL, former USA
    Posts
    7,421
    You're up, chilipeppernorm. Good luck - you're gonna need it.
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  10. #89
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    2,837
    NavyLCDR! Thank you for the links. I had started to read but my comp crashed and I lost the bookmark!
    I couldn't remember the title so I was unable to find it.
    Once again, thank you for the links!


    Sent from behind Enemy Lines.

  11. #90
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Republic of Dead Cell Holler, Occupied Territories of AL, former USA
    Posts
    7,421
    Hopefully, chilipeppernorm is too busy reading to make an apology post to Navy, but I did find in Navy's links the part about the criminals' stated preferences for unarmed victims (Pgs. 37 & 38 of the .pdf). I also found where Gun Facts got their numbers from, and it was indeed a published, scientific-based, reputable duo of researchers who conducted their study (commissioned by the DoJ) between 1982 and 1983. A summary of the researchers' findings, along with a few pull-quotes of stats from their study, can be found here, but one line pretty well sums up what the consumption of hard cold facts can do to anyone willing to accept them as such:

    Professors Wright and Rossi initially believed that strict gun control deterred crime. The results of their research led them to the conclusion that armed citizens have a beneficial effect in reducing criminal behavior....
    Wright's and Rossi's research is clear; armed citizens are a deterrent to crime, and just the known fact that a given jurisdiction is rich in armed citizens reduces crime in most of those jurisdictions. In none of the armed-rich jurisdictions is crime increased. At worst, crime-rates stay level where criminals know that legal access to arms is the least restrictive, and likewise on the street, where the fewest legal impediments to carrying weapons are imposed on the law-abiding citizen.

    Given the increase in the number of lawfully armed citizens since that study was completed and published in 1984, it seems likely that this study's conclusions are even more relevant today. Also, given that the mere threat of an armed citizenry in given jurisdictions is all it takes to make criminals change their behaviors, just imagine what the absolute knowledge of a citizen's armed status because of them OC'ing would do to dissuade the common street-thug from trying to victimize OC'er. The reason there aren't lots of stories of attacks on OC'ers is because, believe it or not, even street-thugs aren't that stupid.

    Blues
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

Page 9 of 12 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Quantcast