A Positive Encounter with a Young Arizona State Trooper - Page 3
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Thread: A Positive Encounter with a Young Arizona State Trooper

  1. Quote Originally Posted by Riverkilt View Post
    If I were a young cop walking up to a car where there were four firearms on board, and three were loaded and within reach I'd sure like to know that and get that situation dealt with .
    In the interest of full disclosure you said your self that two of them were concealed. I have to hand over my permit so it's not something I give much thought to even though I haven't been in a position to do so yet.
    We don't smoke marijuana in Muskogee, we don't take our trips on LSD. We don't burn our draft cards Down on Main Street. 'Cause we like livin' right and being free.

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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Riverkilt View Post
    Attack!! Damn right I'm a proud liberal democrat AND I support the second amendment... Yes I'm a former LEO from generations of LEO service in my family...but I never mention it to the officers...never...because their response would be, "Then you should know better" and a ticket is insured. I advise of my concealed out of respect and courtesy and EMPATHY....
    I really wish you would answer my question, Riverkilt. Why does it have to be one or the other? In my multiple past traffic stops while carrying a firearm I have been BOTH open and friendly AND kept concealed what was already concealed (my CPL and firearm). Again, why does it have to be one or the other? Why am I less open and friendly because I choose to not tell the officer about an object in my legal possession that poses no danger to the officer while in my possession and has no bearing on the traffic stop? Am I not being open and friendly if I don't tell him about my cell phone?

    Let me give you an example, and please answer my question. I have been stopped at least 4 times while carrying a firearm because I used to not pay attention to my speed. One stop went like this: I was on a back road with a speed limit of 50, and had cruise control set at 52. I travel this road everyday to and from work and I know the curve where the grocery store on this road is 35. I forgot to reset my cruise control and, sure enough, at the grocery was Mr. Deputy, which is not uncommon. As I went past him, I saw him pulling out, so I immediately turned on my hazard lights, and a little futher down the road is a private drive that I pulled into to make it safer for the traffic stop because it was off the main road.

    I retrieved my driver's license from my wallet and the folder with my insurance and registration from the glove box. I turned off the engine, and if I wasn't in my convertible with the top down at the time, I would have rolled the driver's side window down all the way. I have my left hand with driver's license in it on the window sill, and my right hand on steering wheel. If it was night, the interior light would have been on. Officer approaches and we exchange good afternoons. When asked, I retrieved the insurance and registration from the folder on my lap. He said, "You were going a bit fast back there." I replied, "I forgot to reset my cruise control when the speed limit changed." He said, "I'll check this out and be right back."

    He came back, handed my paperwork to me, and said, "Please slow down, I'm going to let you go with a warning, have a nice day." I told him, "Thank you, and you have a nice day too."

    Now, this is the question that I would REALLY like you to answer, Riverkilt. Exactly what would have been gained by showing the officer my CPL with my driver's license and telling him about the gun in the holster on my belt? How would it have been any more polite, respectfull or EMPATHETIC to tell him about a legal object and license that had absolutely nothing to do with the situation? I would REALLY like to hear your answer.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverkilt View Post
    Attack!! Damn right I'm a proud liberal democrat AND I support the second amendment... Yes I'm a former LEO from generations of LEO service in my family...but I never mention it to the officers...never...because their response would be, "Then you should know better" and a ticket is insured. I advise of my concealed out of respect and courtesy and EMPATHY....
    So by not revealing to anyone that you encounter, except for LEO's, you are saying you have NO respect, NO courtesy, and NO empathy for anyone who is not a LEO. That sir, is extremely narrow minded and incredibly biased. Why is there more respect, courtesy, and empathy given to a LEO than anyone else that you interact with in your day? What makes that badge so doggone important that you just give up your 4th Amendment rights to them? This is what makes no sense.

    And before you start blathering that you are a LEO, you come from a long line of LEO's, blah blah blah, know that I am too with our Sheriff's Department. I find anyone telling me that they are carrying to be comical. In one sense these people tell me they are 2nd Amendment advocates but then decide the 4th and the 5th have no meaning in their lives. So in summation anyone that declares they are carrying without being forced to by state law is telling me that only part of the Constitution is meaningful to them and that they are content in giving away their rights. That doesn't sound very respectful or courteous to themselves.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  5. #24
    LCDR - its MY choice....understand your point....I CHOOSE to hand over my concealed permit...I get to decide that, you get to decide what you do...is America a great country or what? We can have opposite political beliefs and still agree on the second amendment and the Constitution. Democrats don't have to HATE republicans and vice versa. And jeez louise Wolf Fire....if I like blue it doesn't make me automatically hate red....if I like dogs I don't automatically HATE cats...don't think you'll be making the debating team...the logic escapes me.

    Back in 1975 in Alabama I was pulled over...was carrying concealed under my suit jacket IWB. Just a little Walther PPK. The state trooper was super nice. Invited me back to sit in the front seat of his car while he did the paper work. I totally forgot I was carrying. I never said anything to him. He had no clue. After, I realized what had just happened and had multiple thoughts about it but it kept sifting out to this trooper had an armed civilian in his car. Not that it was any more threat than him having an armed fellow officer sitting there. But that he didn't have a clue. I don't think that's fair to anyone we ask to do the job of a law enforcement officer. Yes yes yes...there are bad cops...thankfully few.

  6. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by wolf_fire View Post
    So by not revealing to anyone that you encounter, except for LEO's, you are saying you have NO respect, NO courtesy, and NO empathy for anyone who is not a LEO. That sir, is extremely narrow minded and incredibly biased. Why is there more respect, courtesy, and empathy given to a LEO than anyone else that you interact with in your day? What makes that badge so doggone important that you just give up your 4th Amendment rights to them? This is what makes no sense.

    And before you start blathering that you are a LEO, you come from a long line of LEO's, blah blah blah, know that I am too with our Sheriff's Department. I find anyone telling me that they are carrying to be comical. In one sense these people tell me they are 2nd Amendment advocates but then decide the 4th and the 5th have no meaning in their lives. So in summation anyone that declares they are carrying without being forced to by state law is telling me that only part of the Constitution is meaningful to them and that they are content in giving away their rights. That doesn't sound very respectful or courteous to themselves.
    Sooo you're assuming by someone declaring they're carrying when they don't have to they are willingly giving up further Constitutional rights? I hear ya buuuut the general population are completely ignorant to what their actual rights are. IMO I wouldn't draw conclusions simply because someone declared they're carrying when they don't have to whether they know their rights or not. Just be happy they don't exit their vehicle and start sending rounds at your cruiser when you least expect. Having a tactical mindset vs whether someone doesn't care about their own rights should be priority on a traffic stop encounter.

    Sent from my hand-held mind distractor

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Riverkilt View Post
    I don't think that's fair to anyone we ask to do the job of a law enforcement officer. Yes yes yes...there are bad cops...thankfully few.
    1. We don't ask people to do the job of a law enforcement officer. It is a career choice.

    2. Given that we don't "draft" people to be law enforcement officers... if you are sitting in the back seat of a taxi cab, why is it fair for the cab driver to have an armed person in his cab and not know? How about a city bus driver and an armed person on his bus? How about a convenience store clerk and an armed person in their store? Why the special treatment for law enforcement officers? Taxi drivers and convenience store clerks get robbed by armed criminals and bus drivers get assaulted by armed riders - so how do you think they will feel if your concealed firearm accidently becomes exposed? Is that fair to them? So why not treat them with equal fairness as a law enforcement officer? And if your firearm remains concealed, than what affect does it have on the police officer any more than the convenience store clerk, taxi driver or bus driver that it isn't fair to not tell the police officer about it?

    3. Are we going to give law enforcement officers this special treatment because of the dangerous public service they choose to perform? Well...guess what... sanitation workers, according to the Department of Labor, die more frequently on the job every year than police officers do. When was the last time you offered special treatment to the guy putting his life on the line every week to take away your trash? Lumber industry workers also die more frequently every year on the job than police officers do. When was the last time you offered special treatment to the worker that helped put the roof over your head? Farmers die more frequently every year on the job than police officers do. When was the last time you offered special treatment to the guys that put food in grocery stores every day for you to eat? In addition, when was the last time you heard about a sanitation worker, lumber worker, or farmer using their job choice to abuse and violate citizens' rights - so does not that also make them more deserving of special treatment?

    I understand it is your choice to inform police officers. I just don't buy your reasons for it. I am also not anti-cop, as I have been accused of being by others. I just refuse to treat them as a special class of citizen.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by dad45acp View Post
    Sooo you're assuming by someone declaring they're carrying when they don't have to they are willingly giving up further Constitutional rights? I hear ya buuuut the general population are completely ignorant to what their actual rights are. IMO I wouldn't draw conclusions simply because someone declared they're carrying when they don't have to whether they know their rights or not. Just be happy they don't exit their vehicle and start sending rounds at your cruiser when you least expect. Having a tactical mindset vs whether someone doesn't care about their own rights should be priority on a traffic stop encounter.

    Sent from my hand-held mind distractor
    I said I find it comical, I didn't say I thought they were intelligent and informed about their rights. To me it is obvious that they are not if they are volunteering such information. I am cautious and wary of everyone I encounter especially when in uniform. However, I also have similar situational awareness when I'm not in uniform. My only thing is, the officer has no right to know about your personal effects, firearms included. He may ask, and you shouldn't have to be able to tell. It's really of no concern of the officers. It makes no one safer by bringing it up. It makes no one safer if you have to hand it over "for everyone's safety", because the safest place for it at the time is in the holster. Unfortunately, some states have further usurped people's rights and have made unConstitutional laws to make the citizenry tell about their firearms if an officer asks, and some states have further usurped the rights of the citizenry by forcing them into submission to inform the moment the detainment begins.

    And I'm reminded of another right the citizenry has, the right to remain silent. When asked, if not against state law, keep your mouth shut and smile. Let them know that questions not about the detainment will not be answered without your lawyer present.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  9. #28
    Good golly Miss Molly.....attack attack attack. The difference between our opinions is I have some empathy for the officer doing his job - in a profession he's chosen yes, to serve and protect....I'm not a Constitutional lawyer at that time arguing a school debate. For sure this common scene would be a great topic for a debate or term paper in a constitutional law class...

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Riverkilt View Post
    The difference between our opinions is I have some empathy for the officer doing his job - in a profession he's chosen yes, to serve and protect....
    I believe the basic difference in our opinions is that you hold law enforcement officers to be a special and elite class of citizen which I refuse to do.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  11. #30
    You've misread me. I do NOT believe cops are a special and elite class of citizen. In my training in both departments I served it was repeatedly emphasized they are not.

    I do believe they are entitled to the courtesy of knowing when they are talking to an armed citizen. I don't grasp why any law abiding citizen would wish to withhold that courtesy.

    Most of us know cops...maybe a bunch...they're just folks doing a job and wanting to stay safe in the process.

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