A Positive Encounter with a Young Arizona State Trooper - Page 4
Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 52

Thread: A Positive Encounter with a Young Arizona State Trooper

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    3,832
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverkilt View Post
    You've misread me. I do NOT believe cops are a special and elite class of citizen. In my training in both departments I served it was repeatedly emphasized they are not.

    I do believe they are entitled to the courtesy of knowing when they are talking to an armed citizen. I don't grasp why any law abiding citizen would wish to withhold that courtesy.

    Most of us know cops...maybe a bunch...they're just folks doing a job and wanting to stay safe in the process.
    Please expound the part that I bold-faced. Why should cops be entitled to such personal information about a person? Why should cops be allowed to circumvent the 4th Amendment and be privy to persons' personal effects? What gives them such entitlement? What job are they doing when they pull someone over for speeding and then turn the detainment into a firearm's conversation?

    I would love to hear how you answer this and not show that you think that cops are a special class of citizen. If you can pull that off, I am all ears.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  2.   
  3. Quote Originally Posted by Riverkilt View Post
    You've misread me. I do NOT believe cops are a special and elite class of citizen. In my training in both departments I served it was repeatedly emphasized they are not.

    I do believe they are entitled to the courtesy of knowing when they are talking to an armed citizen. I don't grasp why any law abiding citizen would wish to withhold that courtesy.

    Most of us know cops...maybe a bunch...they're just folks doing a job and wanting to stay safe in the process.
    There is a question that you have repeatedly not answered, and I will ask it once again. In your statement I have quoted you state that you do not believe that cops are a special and elite class of citizen, and then you state they are entitled to the courtesy of knowing when they are talking to an armed citizen. Yet the question you have repeatedly ignored is: if cops are not special and elite to you, and they are entitled to the "courtesy" of knowing when they are talking to an armed citizen, then why are other people you interact with not entitled to the same courtesy?

    Have you ever visited a convenience store early in the morning or late at night while armed, the only customer there for fuel, snack, coffee break? Do you extend the same courtesy to the store clerk who doesn't know if the next person to come through the door is going to buy something or stick a gun in their face and rob them? If police are not a special and elite class of citizen, then why are they entitled to this "courtesy" as you call it, and yet the hard working convenience store clerk in the middle of the night isn't entitled to the same "courtesy"? What if the convenience store clerk spots your firearm inadvertently exposed when you reach for your wallet to pay for your coffee or candy bar? Aren't the convenience store clerks also "just folks doing a job and wanting to stay safe in the process"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverkilt View Post
    I don't grasp why any law abiding citizen would wish to withhold that courtesy.
    I don't grasp how you claim that "I do NOT believe cops are a special and elite class of citizen" and yet won't extend this same "courtesy" to other hard working members of our society who are also at a higher than average risk to be the victims of armed criminals because of their chosen career field

    I too, am speaking from close experience. My ex-wife worked in a convenience store on the night shift and she was robbed twice. In addition, I left for work at 5:00am one morning and my house was apparently being staked out because my front door was kicked in at 5:05am and my ex-wife who was in the living room in a direct line with the front door screamed, and our three dogs chased the criminal back out of the house. So, can you explain why the police officer is more entitled to know they are talking to an armed citizen than my ex-wife would be if you do not feel they are a special class of citizen with more entitlements due to their chosen career field?
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  4. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Houston Metro Area, Texas
    Posts
    3,004
    When in AZ at my place I carry open, police in AZ are well informed about the laws on carrying unlike most other states. I am always friendly in any state I have been stopped in (lead foot) and comply with that's states carry policies. Personal thought is the 2nd Amendment is all I need anywhere but prefer to have no problems, you might win the war, but you won't win the battle.

  5. #34
    Couple questions... Don't all cops handle every traffic stop as if the person is armed? Does telling them you are, in fact, armed, somehow set them at ease?

    If I knew informing them would make them feel more comfortable with me, I'd be okay with that, I suppose. The problem is, how do I know which cop will be fine and happy with the situation, and which one will want to disarm me or generally freak out about the situation? No body cavity search for me, thanks!
    Modern Whig
    "Government is not meant to burden Liberty but rather to secure it." -T.J. O'Hara

  6. Quote Originally Posted by telpinaro View Post
    Couple questions... Don't all cops handle every traffic stop as if the person is armed? Does telling them you are, in fact, armed, somehow set them at ease?
    If it is so important to the officer to know which law abiding citizens are lawfully carrying firearms, and if it will put them at ease to know which law abiding citizens are lawfully carrying firearms than the solution is incredibly simple: why don't they just ask if you have any firearms or weapons in the vehicle? How hard is that?

    If the officer was concerned about it, and just asked it would have two benefits:

    1. When the "polite" and "courteous" and "respectful" law abiding citizen that he has stopped answers yes, then the officer has fullfilled his desire to know which law abiding citizens are lawfully carrying firearms and he can either then be "at ease" with it, or he can then harass the person because of the firearm - whatever personality the officer is leaning towards at the time, he can fulfill his desires.

    2. If the officer has a subject that lies to him and says no, and it goes badly, and it turns out there are firearms present, now the officer has a stronger case against that subject due to the lie.

    Seems simple to me. If the officer isn't concerned about it enough to ask, than I am not going to be concerned about it enough to bring it up.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

  7. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Pasco, Washington, United States
    Posts
    6,271
    Quote Originally Posted by wolf_fire View Post
    I find anyone telling me that they are carrying to be comical. In one sense these people tell me they are 2nd Amendment advocates but then decide the 4th and the 5th have no meaning in their lives.
    More and more everyday, I become more dissatisfied with the importance of ccw permits. I don't see how they are 2A advocates if they have such little respect for the 2A "shall not be infringed" that they chose to get an infringement to carry. I know I'm of the minority when it comes to disliking ccw's so vehemently, but all revolutions start with a minority.

    Someone early asked why we are spending so much energy attacking each other instead of non 2Aers...For me...those that claim to support the 2A while undermining the Constitution are far worse than those that don't hide their intentions. The enemy within our Constitutional supporters are a much greater risk than those across the lines.

    I don't understand how people who give over their Rights to cops because they feel cops who have been asked to enforce the law are entitled to respect, courtesy, and abridging the Constitution, don't also extend that mentality to those chosen few who are asked to be our check out clerks, those chosen few who are asked to be our garbage men, or those few who are asked to be our taxi drivers...why don't those chosen few deserve the same entitlements?



    Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

  8. #37
    Good Lord! Feel like I stumbled into a freshman law school debate.....Its real simple....I feel like I do and have arrived at my beliefs and decisions as to how I will act in that situation from years of being an LEO and years of working with LEOs. Call me stupid, call me unconstitutional, call me whatever you wanna call me but I'm not gonna change my opinions or behaviors at age 69+ I started out a John Birch Conservative - spoon fed by my grandfather...became a main line republican following my business owning father. Once I got out in the world - on the streets - with police an fire I began to change and finally realized I was a registered republican who never voted for republicans so changed over to a democrat after 37 years a republican - to be congruent with my beliefs. That is who I am. It is hard won. It ain't gonna change any more than I could change your beliefs if I was crazy enough to want to. And for sure I don't need to explain my choices of behaviors - especially to this wolfpack who's just waiting to twist words and accuse. Back to the original post. It went well. I was pleased. The Constitution survived. I'll be marching in our local Veteran's Day parade tomorrow...I earned that, as by your handle you apparently have too. I would guess if we met at a range we'd enjoy chatting.

  9. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    3,832
    Nope... you just stumbled into some people who fought for the Constitution, some who support the Constitution, but more importantly those who understand the Constitution and how it is being subverted and perverted by those who claimed an oath to "support and defend" the Constitution.

    We are sick and tired of our rights being thrown into the fire for something called "common sense" legislation. The founding fathers had more common sense then the entire Congressional House and Senate we have now. These founding fathers understood what they were fighting against, but more importantly what they were fighting for. They were fighting for a land in which we the people were the government, in which we the people made sure that our rights were always in tact. Today, it is elitism at the top of our Federal government, looking down at the citizenry and trying to tell them how best to run their lives. They use their henchmen, LEO's, DHS, and other ABC agencies to do their bidding.

    It's sickening. When we get a chance to show someone how our rights are being trampled, rather than admitting that this is what is happening when: certain states require you to inform a LEO, or other states that require to inform but only if asked, and certain states that require you to get a government permission slip to exert a right; you instead claim that these are your beliefs and everyone is entitled to them. I really couldn't care less about your beliefs if your beliefs include even one person's rights are trampled on by a government official. The required informing of an officer when doing something legal is a usurpation of the Constitution. If however, you believe that we should inform regardless of any law, then I have to conclude that you are ignorant of the Constitution. Anyone that thinks its a good idea to inform anyone they are doing something legal has no regard to their own 4th Amendment, and when they believe it is courteous and respectful to do so to only the special class of people called law enforcement, then that is a horrendous example of ignorance of the 4th and 5th Amendments.

    I really wish you would have directly answered either my questions from post #31, or NavyLCDR repeated questions, but most recently in post #32. It would be enlightening. Instead, you come up with this, "I feel like I do...from...being a LEO". That said a mouthful and it makes all those in LE who truly understand the Constitution look horrible.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
    ~ Benjamin Franklin (maybe)

  10. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Pasco, Washington, United States
    Posts
    6,271
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverkilt View Post
    Good Lord! Feel like I stumbled into a freshman law school debate.....Its real simple....I feel like I do and have arrived at my beliefs and decisions as to how I will act in that situation from years of being an LEO and years of working with LEOs. Call me stupid, call me unconstitutional, call me whatever you wanna call me but I'm not gonna change my opinions or behaviors at age 69+ I started out a John Birch Conservative - spoon fed by my grandfather...became a main line republican following my business owning father. Once I got out in the world - on the streets - with police an fire I began to change and finally realized I was a registered republican who never voted for republicans so changed over to a democrat after 37 years a republican - to be congruent with my beliefs. That is who I am. It is hard won. It ain't gonna change any more than I could change your beliefs if I was crazy enough to want to. And for sure I don't need to explain my choices of behaviors - especially to this wolfpack who's just waiting to twist words and accuse. Back to the original post. It went well. I was pleased. The Constitution survived. I'll be marching in our local Veteran's Day parade tomorrow...I earned that, as by your handle you apparently have too. I would guess if we met at a range we'd enjoy chatting.
    Do you "feel" taxi drivers, garbage men, and store clerks deserve the entitlement to know if we are armed? If not, why?

    The Constitution is dead.
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    Do you "feel" taxi drivers, garbage men, and store clerks deserve the entitlement to know if we are armed? If not, why?
    I don't think we will ever get a straight answer from Riverkilt to that question because his answer would likely be the opposite of his statement that, "I do NOT believe cops are a special and elite class of citizen."
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Quantcast