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Thread: reloading for your carry?

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Mas Ayoob also writes and shows in video that people carrying guns should inform police up front during a traffic stop of their permit and that they are carrying a gun. Do you also subscribe to that advice by the Great Ayoob?
    Separate issue, not germane to thread topic. Also, just for the sake of argument, even if we stipulate that Mr. Ayoob is mistaken in his position regarding informing police of being armed, it does not follow that he is mistaken in his position vis a vis handloads for self defense. On that issue, I think Mr Ayoob's reasoning is quite sound (and the references and facts in actual cases buttresses his argument very well). The main point is this: Anytime you are involved in a shooting, expect serious legal troubles. Regardless of how righteous your shooting may have been, expect a serious attempt to find you guilty of anything from murder to manslaughter to aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. Expect a civil liabilities suit. Mr. Ayoob's point, that using handloads for self defense can introduce an element of uncertainty at trial, with which the prosecution will attempt to hammer your case to death with, is valid. The prosecution will also use the fact that you used hollow points against you if they can. That you trained with your firearm. That you are a member of the NRA (or insert your 2A rights group here). The fact that you used a firearm to defend yourself is repugnant to many of them, and they will try to use that against you as well. Some places in our country are much worse about this than others, but you're not immune to prosecution anywhere. Using factory ammo for self defense just takes one of those potential hammers away from the prosecution.
    Having said that, as I have said before, I would not hesitate to use handloads/reloads for self defense if that was all I had available. I can also imagine situations where a handload might actually be beneficial to your defense, say, downloading a .44 special load to be used in the home with a .44 magnum pistol because that's all you have and you're concerned about over-penetration. The difference here (and I consider it substantial) is that Mr. Ayoob has specific cases to cite, I have only conception and conjecture. Unless we're talking about hunting, I personally use reloads/handloads only at the range.

  3. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    State of Confusion
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Mas Ayoob also writes and shows in video that people carrying guns should inform police up front during a traffic stop of their permit and that they are carrying a gun. Do you also subscribe to that advice by the Great Ayoob?
    No, I don't agree with him on notifying. Not unless asked specifically.

  4. List of things the prosecution "can" use against you; therefore the concealed carrier should not do, if we apply the same standard:

    1. Don't use any caliber larger than your local police force/sheriff's office. If 9mm is good enough for them, than why do you need a .45 - or the especially evil 10mm? Harold Fish's choice of 10mm caliber was used against him.

    2. Already mentioned hollow points.

    3. Don't use Full Metal Jacket either. You know it is designed to penetrate, so you must be looking to penetrate things like car doors, heavy clothing, and body armor if you use Full Metal Jacket ammunition. I'm sure the prosecution would probably show scenes from the movie "Full Metal Jacket" to the jury as well, to show what inspired you to carry it.

    4. If you practice often, especially if you use human silhouette shaped targets, then you are obsessed with being able to kill a human as effectively as possible. Therefore, it is better to only practice with more traditional, round bullseye targets, and would be best not to practice at all.

    5. You should not practice the speed and effectiveness of your draw. You are obsessed with being able to use the "element of surprise" to kill with.

    6. You should not clean your gun regularly because it would indicate an obsession.

    7. Don't do anything to your gun that enhances performance, especially night sights becuse now you are making preparations to be able to kill under the cover of darkness.

    8. It is best if you let the bad guy shoot at you first - it removes doubt as to the intentions of your victim. In fact, you should not even draw your firearm first until they shoot at you first, because if you draw first before they shoot at you the prosecution could say that your victim was only defending themselves against your assault.

    9. We won't even mention drinking any amount of alcohol when carrying a firearm. Even though you would be perfectly legal to have 1 beer with dinner and walk out and drive away in your car, the prosecution will say you were too inebriated to make a rational decision if you have a drop of alcohol in your system.

    10. Don't possess more than 1 magazine worth of ammunition. PERIOD. My god, do NOT carry more than 1 magazine whatever you do. You will be shown to be a potential mass murderer hoarding ammunition for a killing spree if you do.

    11. As mentioned earlier there is the Zombie obsession factor as well. It seems like as near perfect self defense ammunition is this:
    Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Ammunition :: Handgun :: Choose by Caliber :: 38 Special :: 38 Special 90 gr FTX® Critical Defense® LITE

    The Critical Defense® Lite™ 38 Special load is an effective, reduced recoil option for ANY shooter looking to minimize the felt recoil of their lightweight, compact personal protection revolver.

    Designed with the same proven components as our Critical Defense® line of ammunition, this offering features a 90 grain FTX® bullet with a unique PINK Flex Tip®! The pink bullet tips and pink ribbon packaging help signify our desire to share in the fight against breast cancer. A portion of the proceeds from the sale of Critical Defense® Lite™ will go to help fund breast cancer research.
    It would take a hell of a good prosecutor to argue against pink, flexible tipped bullets in pink ribbon packaging. You might even be able to get away with claiming that you were only buying 100s of rounds of this ammo in order to support breast cancer research! I would think that only using a pink gun to match your pink ammo might be beneficial as well.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

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