Suspended LTC in MA for suiide threat
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Thread: Suspended LTC in MA for suiide threat

  1. Suspended LTC in MA for suiide threat

    This will be a long post but please bear me with. Could really use some help.

    - 23 years old, usmc veteran
    - live in MA
    - currently in college for business with the Post 9/11 GI Bill

    I was in a long distance relationship with someone very unloyal , and while I was very drunk one night I kind of blew up and had told her I was going to commit suicide after she was telling me how she was with her ex boyfriend.

    The next day I woke up, talked to a few friends about it and cleared my head for the most part. It was a very rough night, but for the rest of the day we didn't talk. I went to the gym, came home and at about 11pm the police show up at my house for a wellness check (my ex-gf had called the police "worried" about me). I told them the story and afterwards they were asking where my guns were and asked me if i had any past history of mental illnesses. The report says "Officer ___ asked ___ if he had reached out for any treatment. ___ stated he had but he doesnt open up so they dont work" Probably the worst thing I could have said in my case. What I was referring to was over a year ago when i went for social anxiety. I was in no way shape or form depressed before, during or after the police showed up. What I said was purely out of hurt and emotion.

    They ended up forcing me to go to the hospital to get an evaluation. What they told me was that I had a choice to either go to the hospital on my own free will and if everything checked out okay I could leave after I see the doctor OR they would force me to go and "section me", meaning I would be forced to stay for 3 business days. Mind you that this happened on a saturday night, so I would have been held there for a total of 5 days. Of course I told them I'd go on my own free will knowing that I wouldn't actually kill myself and I wasn't depressed. Then they started asking where my guns were. At this point I knew the direction things were going were terrible. We ended up going into my apartment, I showed them where they all were, even unlocked one of the safes for them. I was very cooperative but at the same time knew what they were doing and I did not like it at all. I asked them and expressed my concern that I did not want this to "follow me" and asking if everyhting checked out okay, I would get all my stuff back. They assured me that I would and it wouldn't follow me. Both of which were lies.

    I got to the hospital at about 12:30am. At about 1:30am they brought me into, basically, the loony bin. With white walls and nothing but a cold hard bed in a small room with two other patients that were doing nothing but screaming at eachother and crying. Barely got any sleep and finally at 3am they brought one doctor in but it was the wrong one because my insurance wouldnt have covered it. So I ended up having to wait until 1pm to see another doctor (psychiatrict, therapist whoever it was). I talked to him for all of 20 maybe 30 minutes. He came back within 20 minutes and told me I would be released and within 15 minutes of that I was leaving the hospital.

    I tried getting a hold of my police station a few times about my LTC and firearms with no luck. A week later I get a voice mail from an officer asking me to call back "regarding my LTC". I called back to find out they mailed a letter which was stating they suspended my license indefinitely and I could appeal it in court and would have to transfer my weapons to someone else with an LTC in the meantime.

    ---------------------

    Thank u so much if you have read up until this point. Okay, so I understand where the police are coming from but it is not at all who I am. It was out of pure emotion and being hurt, with alot of alcohol in the mix. I'm not exactly sure where to turn to now. The punishment seems very extreme for something I said out of pure emotion. And the thing I said about getting previous help is definitely going to hurt me in the hearing.

    What should I say in trial?
    Should I hire an attorney/lawyer?
    Do they do most of the talking for me?
    How expensive are they?
    What documents or proof should I bring to help back up my situation?
    Is it possible that the police could show my text messages/call logs in court?

    A few things that I would say could help me out. What do you think?
    - Doctors released me quickly after talking to me
    - I was cooperative while the police were there
    - The punishment is very extreme considering I am not suicidal or depressed
    ----not sure how to prove this except (good diet, good sleep, working out daily, strong family/friends)
    - Im focused on college
    - Very into working out, with a good diet and sleep
    - I could schedule appointments again with a therapist to learn how to deal with stressful situations
    - I have held teaching lessons for my parents and my mothers friend to teach them gun safety,etc.
    - I will be treasurer of the veterans club in the fall

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  3. #2
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    How about asking a qualified lawyer instead of a random stranger on the Internet?

  4. Quote Originally Posted by bofh View Post
    How about asking a qualified lawyer instead of a random stranger on the Internet?
    I've posted on a few forums, mostly legal help ones but also wanted opinions/help from gun specific forums in case this has happened to anyone else. This forum says you can post if it pertains to "laws" so figured I would give it a shot. I don't see any harm in wanting more than one lawyers advice/help.

    But thanks for the reply, I guess ?

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruger19 View Post
    I've posted on a few forums, mostly legal help ones but also wanted opinions/help from gun specific forums in case this has happened to anyone else. This forum says you can post if it pertains to "laws" so figured I would give it a shot. I don't see any harm in wanting more than one lawyers advice/help.

    But thanks for the reply, I guess ?
    A lot of things are specific to the details of the case, so any advice you get over the Internet close to useless. For example, have you been formally committed to a mental hospital? If yes, then you pretty much just lost your gun rights per federal law. The key term here is 'formerly committed'. If this is not the case, (and assuming that you have not been declared mentally defective) then the complexities of Massachusetts state law apply. Basic information can be found here (see 'Ineligibility waived with physician’s affidavit').

    Now all of this information is provided to you by someone who did not even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Any 2A lawyer in MA may even provide you the correct information for free or an extremely low fee if you just ask. Once you have that basic information, you can make an informed decision on how to proceed without worrying that you relied on something that a stranger on the Internet told you who is not accountable to you. Your lawyer, if you even only paid him $1, is fully accountable for the legal advice he gives you.

  6. You came here looking for opinions so I will give you mine. I can't say I fault the authorities too much for the action they took. I am all for less government, but I don't have a big issue with REASONABLE steps to look after the mentally ill, or POSSIBLY mentally ill. It sounds to me (like others mentioned) that you will probably have your 2A rights restored with the right attorney. Now that I've said that I want to be blunt with you. Bear in mind I am not talking down to you or anybody and I am pretty sure what i am about to say you have already figured out on your own after going through this ordeal. Hindsight is 20/20 you know!

    You've heard the saying, "A man's character can be judged by what he does when no one's looking". The same reasoning holds true regarding a man's mental health when dealing with an extremely troubling time. What you do, say and think when you're tested by fire can be a good insight into your mental health. I'm sure (I would hope!) if you're faced with another emotional issue in the future you will remember the ramifications and the rational part of your brain should step in and take over. That's for the next time, but you still have the LAST time to deal with.

    Now, if you (or any other person) is easily enraged, become unhinged, or become emotionally irrational every time life happens, then yes I would have a concern. I believe in the Second Amendment, but I also believe deadly weapons in the hands of the (emotionally) weak is very dangerous. Please know I am not saying this is you. You had a bad breakup, it ripped your heart out and I get it. I don't fault you one bit. Now that you see how easily "the man" can take your carry rights away (I will not debate the legality or constitutionality of it here), I am pretty certain this was a lesson learned for you and others who are reading.

    Again, please don't think I am condescending. I am not at all. I am just pointing out the lesson you just gave yourself and me too. Learning from my mistakes is a good thing, but I find it less painful if I can learn from somebody else's mistakes. Thanks for the free education, my friend. And good luck to you!

  7. #6
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    I believe that anyone who says, "I believe in the Second Amendment, but I also believe deadly weapons in the hands of...." whomever they themselves feel qualified to prohibit from owning/possessing guns, really doesn't.
    No one has ever heard me say that I "hate" cops, because I don't. This is why I will never trust one again though: You just never know...

  8. My advice is simple. Get a experienced attorney in MA gun law. Chances are if you handle this by yourself things will only get worse. It will cost you $$$ but it is the best chance of getting the outcome you are looking for. If you do not already know an experience gun law attorney, I suggest you contact:
    - GOAL (Gun Owners' Action League of Massachusetts) the Gun Owners Action League of MA. They can probably give you a referral to a good attorney
    - If you are a member of USCAA, they can give you a referral as well.

    Biggest mistake you can make is to assume that the facts are on your side and this will work itself out.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan75156 View Post
    You came here looking for opinions so I will give you mine. I can't say I fault the authorities too much for the action they took. I am all for less government, but I don't have a big issue with REASONABLE steps to look after the mentally ill, or POSSIBLY mentally ill. It sounds to me (like others mentioned) that you will probably have your 2A rights restored with the right attorney. Now that I've said that I want to be blunt with you. Bear in mind I am not talking down to you or anybody and I am pretty sure what i am about to say you have already figured out on your own after going through this ordeal. Hindsight is 20/20 you know!

    You've heard the saying, "A man's character can be judged by what he does when no one's looking". The same reasoning holds true regarding a man's mental health when dealing with an extremely troubling time. What you do, say and think when you're tested by fire can be a good insight into your mental health. I'm sure (I would hope!) if you're faced with another emotional issue in the future you will remember the ramifications and the rational part of your brain should step in and take over. That's for the next time, but you still have the LAST time to deal with.

    Now, if you (or any other person) is easily enraged, become unhinged, or become emotionally irrational every time life happens, then yes I would have a concern. I believe in the Second Amendment, but I also believe deadly weapons in the hands of the (emotionally) weak is very dangerous. Please know I am not saying this is you. You had a bad breakup, it ripped your heart out and I get it. I don't fault you one bit. Now that you see how easily "the man" can take your carry rights away (I will not debate the legality or constitutionality of it here), I am pretty certain this was a lesson learned for you and others who are reading.

    Again, please don't think I am condescending. I am not at all. I am just pointing out the lesson you just gave yourself and me too. Learning from my mistakes is a good thing, but I find it less painful if I can learn from somebody else's mistakes. Thanks for the free education, my friend. And good luck to you!
    Utter nonsense. By that standard, you shouldn't have access to deadly weapons, because you have an irrational fear of the "emotionally weak".

    The OP verbally told his girlfriend during a breakup argument that he is going to commit suicide. He never threatened anyone else. Having access to a firearm does not increase the risk of suicide, while removing access does not decrease it. Proper counselling does help. Thanks to people like you, many do not seek help, because their problems are being stigmatized and they are being declared a danger to society out of an irrational fear.

    There is a significant difference between having a serious mental illness, a mental disorder and just having a bad time. There are also significant differences between the different types of mental disorders and illnesses. You just lump everything together and want the government to keep a close eye on THOSE people. About 26 percent of Americans ages 18 and older suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year. However, only about 6 percent suffer from a serious mental illness. If you look at these numbers closely, you would realize that you are calling for government bureaucrats to keep a close eye on almost every citizen.

    The OP served in the USMC and is currently in college with the Post-9/11 GI Bill. This is certainly a demonstration of good character, which you seem to easily dismiss. While you are saying that you are not condescending, you actually are. Many veterans deal with PTS, by the way.

    How about educating yourself on the topic at hand before posting a highly judgmental comment? I purposely stayed away from addressing the OP's problems in order not to be judgmental. The OP needs legal help and I pressed him hard to seek professional legal help.

  10. After reading these replies I am embarrassingly thinking, "OMG what did I say last night?" After carefully re-reading my comment, I see that my attempts NOT to sound judgmental or condescending failed miserably, and I apologize for that.

    BOFH, you mentioned you chose not to respond as you yourself didn't want to sound judgmental. I guess I'm proof it's very difficult sometimes to project the proper tone. Your assessment of my opinion is EXACTLY what I was trying to avoid because I knew it could easily be interpreted that way. You said I easily dismissed his good character. For that yes I am guilty of failing to acknowledge it. I did not dismiss it. I simply failed to address it.

    OP, I sincerely apologize if I gave you the wrong impression because of my poorly worded response. What was in my mind obviously did not translate to word very well.

    I will provide a summary of my original thoughts here:
    - I mentioned I did not 100% fault the authorities for their action (meaning I could see where they were coming from). I was actually referring to the popo doing the welfare check. The "professional" assessment determination was a bit overkill and was probably CYA in my opinion. I do NOT agree that your 2A rights should have been revoked over this, but they were... hence the attorney. I don't believe one emotional breakdown is cause for drastic action or even a reflection on a person's mental health. I was more referring to somebody who frequently goes to that dark place and has to be coaxed off the ledge (figuratively speaking).

    When I used the term, "emotionally weak", I used that more loosely than I should have. As I was writing my response, I had a broader picture in my mind. I was using your scenario and applying (probably mis-applying) it to a genuinely unstable person who is likely a threat to himself or others. I in no way was referring to OP personally. The whole time I was thinking about a dear friend of mine who is cursed with clinical depression, and I guarantee you a gun in her hands would result in tragedy. Fortunately she knows that and is under professional care... but allowing her to have a gun? You might as well save her the trouble and pull the trigger yourself.

    Lastly, as I am writing this I had an odd revelation. Weird as it sounds, I was mentally substituting OP with my depressed friend whom I worry about daily and cry for. A few lines in there I see now I was speaking to her, not you. I did exactly what I myself cautioned against.... I let my emotion take over the conversation.

    In hindsight I should have left this alone, but this topic hit close to home so I jumped in. Sorry if I offended anybody. That was certainly not my intent.

  11. I wasn't offended Dan. I appreciate all the replies and can respect all opinions/point of views. I, too, can understand to an extent why the police did what they did. But only in an extreme scenario.. My situation was definitely not an extreme one given the circumstances and they completely failed to look into the situation before jumping to the conclusion that taking away my 2a was the right thing to do.

    I'm trying to work it all out now. Once the fall semester starts back up, it may be a bit harder to fit it all into my schedule.
    - I have scheduled a CBT therapy sessions with a VA psychologist that works with a lot of veterans at my college. I'll be seeing her starting the first week of September.
    - I did call an attorneys office on Thursday afternoon, but they hadn't called back yet. Will probably call again Monday and if no luck again I'll probably call another law office. I'm sure they're busy but I don't want to wait til the last minute to finally go to court to appeal

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