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Thread: New to CC; Handgun Suggestions?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
    (This means that a pistol like a Beretta 92FS, a Springfield XD(M), or a Glock Model 17 would be ideal!) 'Practical' to me means that a student should begin with nothing smaller than a COMPACT FRAME pistol Something typified by the likes of, say, a Glock Model 19, or a 4" Springfield XD. (Revolvers are out, right? Because, for your use, if they aren't then they should be.)
    I wouldn't recommend the Beretta 92FS as a concealed carry handgun to anyone for a number of reasons. The slide-mounted safety/decocker would be one of them. It is a disaster waiting to happen for the untrained or less trained: decocking your handgun while reloading. This and other issues with the Beretta 92FS have been discussed on this forum before.

    Springfield XD series handguns run for a while until they don't. They have shown reliability issues in training classes that I attended. In addition, there is that stupid grip safety, which is also a disaster waiting to happen: operating the firearm in less than perfect conditions (such as when injured). There is a reason why professional operators used to pin the grip safety of their issued 1911s.

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bofh View Post
    I wouldn't recommend the Beretta 92FS as a concealed carry handgun to anyone for a number of reasons. The slide-mounted safety/decocker would be one of them. It is a disaster waiting to happen for the untrained or less trained: decocking your handgun while reloading. This and other issues with the Beretta 92FS have been discussed on this forum before.

    Springfield XD series handguns run for a while until they don't. They have shown reliability issues in training classes that I attended. In addition, there is that stupid grip safety, which is also a disaster waiting to happen: operating the firearm in less than perfect conditions (such as when injured). There is a reason why professional operators used to pin the grip safety of their issued 1911s.
    You know what, Junior, why don't you, 'cut the crap' before you get someone badly injured by taking your inimitable brand of generally, 'half-right' internet gun forum advice, hmmm ...... ?

    As Jim Cirillo, on occasion, pointed out: Jeff Cooper wasn't always right. I used to be one of Austin Behlert's regular customers, as well as a personal friend of Frank, his youngest son, and Art Leckie, the shop's senior gunsmith and Austin's son-in-law. Frank and I even used to shoot IPSC matches together. For awhile there, Austin used to pin-down his 1911 grip safeties. These pinned-down safeties DID work well during competition; but, in everyday real life, those pinned-down 1911 safeties turned out to be as dangerous as all hell; and pinned-down safeties quickly fell out of favor with numerous of Austin's regular customers — Myself among them.

    Another thing: You're always so absolutely frigg 'in adamant with your opinions. Right, or wrong, or (most often) somewhere in between, you've just got to have your say. Yes in years past there have, indeed, been mechanical issues with the U.S. Army M92's; but today's Beretta 92's have really only one outstanding functional issue; AND it's got nothing to do with the discretionary user safety. What is it? It's the Army's use of 9 x 19mm FMJ ball ammo.

    You're always so quick to let other people know what you think. Now, I'd like to return the favor! A Senior Firearms Instructor once said to me: 'Be careful!' 'You're never going to really be any good with a pistol until after you learn how to put down the pistol you're presently using, pick up another one that your opponent was using, and then use that, 'pickup' as well as (or better than) the pistol you just put down.' The man was talking about switching flawlessly between a semiautomatic pistol, and a revolver! (Something that I do regularly without even thinking about it; can you, honestly, say the same?)

    A discretionary, user-applied safety is NOT the great hinderance you so often insist it is. Instead I would suggest that — maybe, just maybe — you don't really know what you're talking about. Instead, you only think that you do.

  4. #13
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    New to CC; Handgun Suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
    You know what, Junior, why don't you, 'cut the crap' before you get someone badly injured by taking your inimitable brand of generally, 'half-right' internet gun forum advice, hmmm ...... ?

    As Jim Cirillo, on occasion, pointed out: Jeff Cooper wasn't always right. I used to be one of Austin Behlert's regular customers, as well as a personal friend of Frank, his youngest son, and Art Leckie, the shop's senior gunsmith and Austin's son-in-law. Frank and I even used to shoot IPSC matches together. For awhile there, Austin used to pin-down his 1911 grip safeties. These pinned-down safeties DID work well during competition; but, in everyday real life, those pinned-down 1911 safeties turned out to be as dangerous as all hell; and pinned-down safeties quickly fell out of favor with numerous of Austin's regular customers Myself among them.

    Another thing: You're always so absolutely frigg 'in adamant with your opinions. Right, or wrong, or (most often) somewhere in between, you've just got to have your say. Yes in years past there have, indeed, been mechanical issues with the U.S. Army M92's; but today's Beretta 92's have really only one outstanding functional issue; AND it's got nothing to do with the discretionary user safety. What is it? It's the Army's use of 9 x 19mm FMJ ball ammo.

    You're always so quick to let other people know what you think. Now, I'd like to return the favor! A Senior Firearms Instructor once said to me: 'Be careful!' 'You're never going to really be any good with a pistol until after you learn how to put down the pistol you're presently using, pick up another one that your opponent was using, and then use that, 'pickup' as well as (or better than) the pistol you just put down.' The man was talking about switching flawlessly between a semiautomatic pistol, and a revolver! (Something that I do regularly without even thinking about it; can you, honestly, say the same?)

    A discretionary, user-applied safety is NOT the great hinderance you so often insist it is. Instead I would suggest that maybe, just maybe you don't really know what you're talking about. Instead, you only think that you do.
    Thank you for validating my argument on the grip safety. Pinning it down is a hack to fix something that shouldn't be there in the first place.

    As for the Beretta, you misunderstood my post. It is not that it has a safety, but where it is located, on the slide. If you would have followed the link I posted, you would have known that and why this is a problem.

    How about you cut the crap with your arrogance?

  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bofh View Post
    Thank you for validating my argument on the grip safety. Pinning it down is a hack to fix something that shouldn't be there in the first place.

    As for the Beretta, you misunderstood my post. It is not that it has a safety, but where it is located, on the slide. If you would have followed the link I posted, you would have known that and why this is a problem.

    How about you cut the crap with your arrogance?
    Arc (who has never actually used a gun outside of the square range BTW) does this on every forum he participates in. He bloviates about his long experience as an instructor ( ask him about the time he brought an empty holster to a gunfight) with no mention of any experience to back it up. He even tells actual working cops with years of experience how they're "doing it wrong."

    I generally ignore him but it's occasionally fun to jerk his chain.
    In an emergency individuals do not rise to the occasion, they fall to the level of their MASTERED training
    Barrett Tillman

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
    :Another thing: You're always so absolutely frigg 'in adamant with your opinions. Right, or wrong, or (most often) somewhere in between, you've just got to have your say. Yes in years past there have, indeed, been mechanical issues with the U.S. Army M92's; but today's Beretta 92's have really only one outstanding functional issue; AND it's got nothing to do with the discretionary user safety. What is it? It's the Army's use of 9 x 19mm FMJ ball ammo.
    Pot? Kettle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
    :You're always so quick to let other people know what you think. Now, I'd like to return the favor! A Senior Firearms Instructor once said to me: 'Be careful!' 'You're never going to really be any good with a pistol until after you learn how to put down the pistol you're presently using, pick up another one that your opponent was using, and then use that, 'pickup' as well as (or better than) the pistol you just put down.' The man was talking about switching flawlessly between a semiautomatic pistol, and a revolver! (Something that I do regularly without even thinking about it; can you, honestly, say the same?)
    But have you ever done it against anyone who was trying to kill you? Or or empty holsters more your style?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
    :Instead I would suggest that — maybe, just maybe — you don't really know what you're talking about. Instead, you only think that you do.
    Oh the irony
    In an emergency individuals do not rise to the occasion, they fall to the level of their MASTERED training
    Barrett Tillman

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
    Wow! The A-hole quotient around here is way over the top!

    bofh, I didn't misunderstand you at all. You're a loudmouth and a misinformed jerk, period.

    Eidolon, you are a fallacious and cowardly liar. (And I don't speak like that very often to someone; but you deserve to hear it.) Sadly, the internet is a perfect place for a fool like you to hang out and post erroneous technical opinions, and unfounded lies about someone else whom you do not even know; and (I might as well say it.) whose shadow you obviously aren't fit to so much as stand in out in the real world.

    Want demonstrable proof? Only a coward would post the kind of crap talk that you just did on the internet. You are a person who is very much without honor; and you deserve the sordid company you keep. I feel sorry for those inexperienced board members who are gullible enough about firearms and gun topics to believe a majority of anything the two of you have to say.

    Finally, take a look at Matthew 12:36. Someday this scripture will, most definitely, apply to the both of you!
    You just lost any arguments in this thread by posting personal attacks instead of an appropriate counter argument that is based on facts and experience.

    Again, those that are actually interested to know what the issue with the slide-mounted safety is can follow the link I posted. Hint: you can decock the gun while racking the slide. This is a well-known issue with Berettas.

  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
    Wow! The A-hole quotient around here is way over the top!

    bofh, I didn't misunderstand you at all. You're a loudmouth and a misinformed jerk, period.

    Eidolon, you are a fallacious and cowardly liar. (And I don't speak like that very often to someone; but you deserve to hear it.) Sadly, the internet is a perfect place for a fool like you to hang out and post erroneous technical opinions, and unfounded lies about someone else whom you do not even know; and (I might as well say it.) whose shadow you obviously aren't fit to so much as stand in out in the real world.

    Want demonstrable proof? Only a coward would post the kind of crap talk that you just did on the internet. You are a person who is very much without honor; and you deserve the sordid company you keep. I feel sorry for those inexperienced board members who are gullible enough about firearms and gun topics to believe a majority of anything the two of you have to say.

    Finally, take a look at Matthew 12:36. Someday this scripture will, most definitely, apply to the both of you!
    Speaking of demonstrable proof would you like me to post the quote about you throwing down on somebody and then realizing you left your gun at home?

    Unfortunately the thread is locked so I couldn't do the quote tags but please read post 104 in the following thread


    Carrying Occasionally - Page 3

    side, took a combat stance, and reached for my holster - My surprisingly empty holster! There I was with an empty holster, two extra magazines, and no gun! He glared at me; and, without any other options, I narrowed my eyes and started back at him. I had to think fast; and, without any viable alternatives, I decided my best chance to survive against this fellow, who was younger and much larger than I am, was to do my best imitation of, 'faking it'. So, with my gun hand at my side and from a gunman's crouch, I yelled at him, 'Don't make me do it!'
    BTW WTF is a "gunman's crouch"?



    So tell us Arc is this post you or not? Or did someone else who goes by Arc Angle and lives in Penn's Woods post it?

    As for the rest post your CV dude, have you eve actually used a firearm (not an empty holster) in self defense?
    In an emergency individuals do not rise to the occasion, they fall to the level of their MASTERED training
    Barrett Tillman

  9. #18
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    Arc.....you put this thread over the top or as you worded it A-Hole quotient over the top. Bofh writes some good stuff and in this case as in most if not all he was right. The personal attacks that you directed at Bofh were way out of line and un called for. I like what Bofh writes, he always has good advice to the novices and to others as well based on his experiences
    . And hahaha he is always prepared to back up his facts.....You Arc.....are the A-hole in this case.

    +1 for Bofh
    -1 for Arc A-Hole

  10. #19
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    FYI: Those that actually handled a Springfield XD series firearm before know that the grip safety does need to be disengaged to rack the slide. This deficiency was fixed in the Mod 2 versions, if I remember correctly.

  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bofh View Post
    FYI: Those that actually handled a Springfield XD series firearm before know that the grip safety does need to be disengaged to rack the slide. This deficiency was fixed in the Mod 2 versions, if I remember correctly.
    My personal preference is to keep it as simple as possible, safeties, decockers and grip safeties are mechanical devices and mechanical devices fail. I don't like extraneous controls on a handgun.
    In an emergency individuals do not rise to the occasion, they fall to the level of their MASTERED training
    Barrett Tillman

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