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Thread: When local business post no weapons

  1. #21
    Join Date
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    Folks need to be aware of the applicable laws for their own state. Here is an excerpt from....

    http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/michigan.pdf

    Frequently Asked Question
    From
    MCRGO
    Michigan Coalition For Responsible Gun Owners.

    Q: Is there a specific design for the no gun allowed sign? Does the law say where it has to be placed at
    a business, such as on the door or adjacent window leading into the business?
    -snip-

    The second is when the owner or lessor of any real property communicates to us that our guns are not
    welcome there. That communication must be reasonable in order to be effective. By reasonable, I don't mean
    polite. I mean that there is an effective means of communicating to us that we are not welcome so long as we
    are carrying our guns. This can be done with a sign, verbally, or in some kind of printed material.
    For instance, if there is a reasonably sized and located sign in a retail establishment indicating that guns or weapons are not allowed, that would constitute reasonable notice.

    If an employee of the same establishment actually tells you that you may not carry on the premises, that would constitute reasonable notice. If your employer has an employee handbook or some kind of printed guidelines, and includes a prohibition on guns and/or weapons, that would constitute reasonable notice.

    If you choose to ignore any such reasonable notice, then you become a trespasser rather than a business
    invitee. Trespass can be punished as a crime and/or in civil court, and could affect your CPL licensing status.
    -snip-
    Bold added by me for emphasis....

    So it appears to me that in Michigan being asked to leave is not a requirement for being notified of trespass because a "no guns" sign in and of itself constitutes notice and anyone who knowingly enters anyway is subject to any and all penalties for the criminal act of trespassing including being arrested on the spot without anyone saying anything to indicate having been caught trespassing.

    Other states may have different laws in regards to trespass.
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. - J. C. Watts

  2.   
  3. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Except that you have no right to be on others' private property.
    Exept you have no right to own a business in the first place.

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genasi View Post
    Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Except that you have no right to be on others' private property.
    Exept you have no right to own a business in the first place.
    Except private property is private property whether it is used for a business or not.
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. - J. C. Watts

  5. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Except private property is private property whether it is used for a business or not.
    This thread is about business, so...

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genasi View Post
    Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Except private property is private property whether it is used for a business or not.
    This thread is about business, so...
    Yes it is. And a business is private property so....

    The Legal Rights of a Business to Ban a Person From Their Property | Chron.com

    The Legal Rights of a Business to Ban a Person From Their Property

    -snip-
    Property Owners' Rights

    Private property is any property owned by private persons and not by the government or reserved for public use. Private property includes buildings and real estate as well as objects and intellectual property. People who own property have the right to manage it and control it. A store, for example, is private property. Offering merchandise for sale implies an invitation to enter, but the store owner is entitled to ban someone from coming in.-snip-
    Bold added by me for emphasis...
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. - J. C. Watts

  7. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Yes it is. And a business is private property so....
    .
    Gun rights pre-date the government whereas property rights need to be issued by the government,so gun rights trump property rights always and in all things.

  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genasi View Post
    Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Yes it is. And a business is private property so....
    Gun rights pre-date the government whereas property rights need to be issued by the government,so gun rights trump property rights always and in all things.
    Please provide cites and links to support that statement?

    While I wait there is this:

    Private Property and Government Under the Constitution

    Private Property and Government Under the Constitution
    -snip-
    The Founding Fathers upheld the economic view of property. They believed that private property ownership, as defined under common law, pre-existed government. The state and federal governments were the mere contractual agents of the people, not sovereign lords over them. All rights, not specifically delegated to the government, remained with the people--including the common-law provisions of private property. Consequently, the constitutional rights regarding free speech, freedom of religion, the right of assembly, and private property rights are all claims that individuals may hold and exercise against the government itself. In brief, private property refers to the rights of owners to use their possessions which are enforceable against all nonowners--even the government.-snip-
    Bold added by me for emphasis.....
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. - J. C. Watts

  9. #28
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    Duplicate post deleted..........
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. - J. C. Watts

  10. #29

    When local business post no weapons

    Here we go again... the mundane argument over property rights continues once more I see..... Great....

  11. "Hello, 911? This is Joe, the manager at WalMart. There's a guy here in the store with a gun whom we have told to leave and he is refusing to leave. Saying something about his rights....."

    See how well that goes.... and make sure when the police get there to say something about prying your gun from your cold, dead hands.
    Anyone who says, "I support the 2nd amendment, BUT"... doesn't. Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

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