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Thread: When local business post no weapons

  1. #41

    When local business post no weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post

    Originally posted by corneileous
    Still doing your pointless comparisons I see, huh?

    Who cares that it's an infringement to property owners about the law saying they can't discriminate against gays, a particular race, so on and so forth?

    Private property or not, when it's a public place that thousands and thousands of people go into every day, there's just certain things private property owners of public places just shouldn't be allowed to do and it's appalling and disgusting that you would even make that point about discrimination laws as being an infringement. Pathetic.

    Imagine what would happen if these people were allowed to discriminate against whoever they choose.

    Still gonna make pointless arguments about specific private property rights that's it's a good thing they don't have??
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    As expected that didn't take long.
    Fine, don't wanna answer my basic question? Then, don't. Everyone who reads this thread probably wouldn't care anyway to read your explanation on why it's so bad for these poor private property businesses owners having their discriminatory rights infringed on.

  2.   
  3. Did you just assume my property rights? *triggered*



    victus qui se victus

  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by corneileous View Post
    Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Or, at least in Michigan where there isn't any legal requirement for the manager or owner to first ask the guy carrying a gun to leave, the call could go something like this.....

    "Hello 911? This is the manager at ToysRUs and there's a guy here in the store with a gun and we have a no guns sign right on the front door for notification. I'm not going to say anything to him because he has a gun. Please send someone to arrest him for trespassing."

    And when the police get there the guy who thought he was getting away with sneaking his gun in should definitely explain to the cops how his right to carry his gun trumps the property owner's right to have him arrested for trespass ... and see how well that goes. Not to mention explaining that to the folks who have the power to take away his carry permit.
    Of course if somebody would be dumb enough to or, let's just say for argument's sake, didn't see the sign as they walked right in with their gun in plain sight, this would be the expected action. Conceal carry, you don't have that problem unless you do a piss-poor job concealing it because the only way they're gonna know you have it is when you'd have to use it and at that point, that's where the whole, "tried by 12 or carried out by 6" clause comes into play. I may pay a huge fine or go to jail but at least I'll be alive to stand trial and take my chances. Sure beats being placed in a wooden box, lowered in a hole in the ground.
    And all I need to do is just not go shopping in a business where the owner exercised his right to deny entry to those who carry guns and I wouldn't have to worry about being placed in a wooden box or lowered into the ground just for the convenience of shopping where my ego says I will and damn the rights of others.

    But then, from the myriad of your posts that basically say you will disrespect the rights of others I would expect no less from you.

    Oh... and regardless of the manner of concealed carry or how careful I am to maintain concealment I wouldn't guarantee that someone can't figure out that I am carrying concealed.

    Quote Originally Posted by corneileous View Post
    If I lived in an area that gave force of law to these idiots or if my permit would be in danger of being revoked then I'd have to reevaluate my priorities. I'm just thankful that Oklahoma doesn't give force of law to these bozos and as far as I know, I'll have to reread my SDA handbook but, to my knowledge, getting a trespassing charge for being in a gun free zone with a gun doesn't threaten loss of carry privileges.
    Yeah well, when you advocate carrying despite gun ban signs, policies/rules on the internet you are making the ass u mption that everywhere has the same laws as Oklahoma. But not everyone lives in Oklahoma and your championing ... sneaking... a gun in on the internet can cause a newbie to make a very terrible mistake with terrible consequences for them. But then, I suspect your attitude of "Hooray for MY rights and to hell with yours." would cause you not to care about that either.

    But if nothing else my post may have caused you to look up the actual laws of Oklahoma don't forget to check the actual trespass laws too so I'll consider that to be a positive outcome.
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. - J. C. Watts

  5. #44

    When local business post no weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    And all I need to do is just not go shopping in a business where the owner exercised his right to deny entry to those who carry guns and I wouldn't have to worry about being placed in a wooden box or lowered into the ground just for the convenience of shopping where my ego says I will...
    You make it out to sound like only the places that ban guns are the places that have acts of violence committed by a bad guy with a gun. Got news for ya buddy but, your life can be on jeopardy.... anywhere.

    ...and damn the rights of others.
    I could say the same thing about these people. But I don't, I just conceal carry away. They have no idea. They go home everyday not knowing anything. The only person it seems to bother......... Is you....

    But then, from the myriad of your posts that basically say you will disrespect the rights of others I would expect no less from you.
    Yeah, so. Your point? Explain to me how that's any of your business and how you have this self-perceived right to judge like you're all that??

    Oh... and regardless of the manner of concealed carry or how careful I am to maintain concealment I wouldn't guarantee that someone can't figure out that I am carrying concealed.
    I didn't say it as a one hundred percent guarantee. Didn't even imply that. I just simply said if someone was dumb enough or too proud enough or even with the addition of just not simply seeing the sign, to open carry in a store that bans guns, stands a lot higher chance of getting caught.

    Yeah well, when you advocate carrying despite gun ban signs, policies/rules on the internet you are making the ass u mption.....
    No buddy, that's your ASSUMPTION.... not mine. Read on below.

    .....that everywhere has the same laws as Oklahoma.
    I said that?? Where?? I mentioned the laws in my state but where in the Sam-hell did I say I promised the laws where the same everywhere else??

    You see, this is probably the biggest reason why you aren't all that fun to debate with when you start pulling your post-screwing nonsense.

    But not everyone lives in Oklahoma.....
    Right... again tho, why the once again assumption of me comparing all 49 other states to mine??

    ...."and your championing ...
    I am certainly not "championing" anything.

    MEGA-FAIL When local business post no weaponsWhen local business post no weaponsWhen local business post no weaponsYou...

    ...sneaking... a gun in on the internet can cause a newbie to make a very terrible mistake with terrible consequences for them.
    Lol, it is up to people to research the laws in their own state, ain't it? Besides, you just stated at the very bottom of your post 38 about advising people to do so.

    But then, I suspect your attitude of "Hooray for MY rights and to hell with yours." would cause you not to care about that either.
    It's not like that, man. I promise you.

    But if nothing else my post may have caused you to look up the actual laws of Oklahoma don't forget to check the actual trespass laws too so I'll consider that to be a positive outcome.
    As far as whether or not my permit would be in jeopardy if I got caught carrying where I wasn't supposed to, with the exception of federal buildings and such, I haven't heard anything about that but as far as the trespassing part, I knew that way before I even filled out my application for my permit but, I'll let you have that one I guess.

  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by corneileous View Post
    -snip-
    As far as whether or not my permit would be in jeopardy if I got caught carrying where I wasn't supposed to, with the exception of federal buildings and such, I haven't heard anything about that but as far as the trespassing part, I knew that way before I even filled out my application for my permit but, I'll let you have that one I guess.
    You will .... let... me have that one? I bow before your magnificence oh great magnanimous one!
    /s
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. - J. C. Watts

  7. #46

    When local business post no weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    You will .... let... me have that one? I bow before your magnificence oh great magnanimous one!
    I can take it back if you prefer.

    I just figured I'd be nice and let you have that one considering I never really gave that much thought about it but, since those anti-gun signs have no weight of law here, I'd be awfully surprised if my permit could be threatened if I carry anyway.

  8. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by corneileous View Post
    -snip-I never really gave that much thought about it but, since those anti-gun signs have no weight of law here, I'd be awfully surprised if my permit could be threatened if I carry anyway.
    You and perhaps other folks regardless of which state they live in/visit might be "surprised" to find out that your permit could be threatened if you were to be arrested or ticketed or whatever your state does
    for trespass but do you actually ... know... what the effect of such would be on your permit?



    I strongly suggest that everyone who thinks that a no guns sign has no weight of law understand that no guns signs may not have the weight of a gun law behind them but those signs still have the weight of trespass law behind them. And while it would be wise to research and know the applicable gun laws in your state it would also be wise to research and know the trespass laws and how they could affect your carry permit.
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. - J. C. Watts

  9. #48
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    Here is some info for Michigan:

    MSP - Concealed Pistol License Requirements

    Concealed Pistol License Requirements

    9. Have not been convicted of a misdemeanor violation of any of the following in the eight years immediately preceding the date of the application and a charge for a misdemeanor violation of any of the following is not pending against the applicant in this state or elsewhere at the time he or she applies for a CPL:
    -snip-
    MCL 750.115, breaking and entering or entering without breaking
    -snip-
    Bold added by me for emphasis....
    And then:

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(5in...hlight=750.115

    THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
    Act 328 of 1931


    750.115 Breaking and entering or entering without breaking; buildings, tents, boats, railroad cars; entering public buildings when expressly denied.

    Sec. 115.

    (1) Any person who breaks and enters or enters without breaking, any dwelling, house, tent, hotel, office, store, shop, warehouse, barn, granary, factory or other building, boat, ship, railroad car or structure used or kept for public or private use, or any private apartment therein, or any cottage, clubhouse, boat house, hunting or fishing lodge, garage or the out-buildings belonging thereto, any ice shanty with a value of $100.00 or more, or any other structure, whether occupied or unoccupied, without first obtaining permission to enter from the owner or occupant, agent, or person having immediate control thereof, is guilty of a misdemeanor.
    -snip-
    Bold added by m for emphasis...

    So.... a plain reading (I am NOT an attorney!) would indicate that those who enter a store that has a no guns rule/policy while carrying concealed do not have the owner's permission and are guilty of a misdemeanor and are therefor not eligible to have a concealed carry permit. "Not eligible" could mean not being issued one in the first place and it could also mean having an existing permit revoked.

    So... to everyone...

    Just because a no guns sign may not have the weight of gun law behind it doesn't mean that sign has no weight of law. What are the ramifications of trespass law in regards to your carry permit in your state... and any state you might visit?
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. - J. C. Watts

  10. #49
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    Here is something from a quick search of Oklahoma law...

    From Oklahoma's own government website Frequently Asked Questions...

    https://www.ok.gov/osbi/Handgun_Lice..._FAQs.html#Q38

    38. Are there places I can’t carry my gun?

    TITLE 21 § 1290.22 - BUSINESS OWNER’S RIGHTS

    A. Except as provided in subsection B of this section, nothing contained in any provision of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, … shall be construed to limit, restrict or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of any person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity to control the possession of weapons on any property owned or controlled by the person or business entity.-snip-


    8. What if I’ve been arrested?
    -snip-
    You can also be denied if you have significant character defects evidenced by a misdemeanor criminal record indicating habitual criminal activity.-snip-

    Again.. I am not an attorney nor am I even close to being well versed in Oklahoma law as those who have a carry permit there should be but a plain reading of that indicates to me that if someone is arrested for trespass a couple of times it could be construed as "habitual criminal activity" and lead to denial of a carry permit.

    Again... to everyone... I strongly suggest knowing and understanding ALL the laws that could impact your carry permit for the state you live in and any state you might visit.
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. - J. C. Watts

  11. #50
    Well, I can't find anything on the net regarding disqualification to an, "already issued" Oklahoma carry permit but I will say, and you can take this however you want and for whatever it's worth but, long time ago when I talked to an Oklahoma Highway patrol officer about where you can and can't carry with the exception of the obvious like schools, government buildings, etc, etc, before I did anything regarding pursuing a permit and carrying my gun on me, I was told by him, pretty much that, although he wasn't telling me to carry my gun where I wasn't supposed to, he just pretty much asked me if I'd rather be carried out by six or judged by twelve if I was questioning myself about carrying in a gun free zone.

    Again, you or anybody for that matter can take all that for however you want but it sure sounds a lot like to me that residents here in Oklahoma don't necessarily have a risk of having their permit taken away over a trespassing charge. Now, I don't think I'd wanna take my chances carrying in a courtroom for example but, the 7-11 down the street with the "robbers-welcome" signs...well, you be the judge.

    I may be wrong but all that stuff you posted Bikenut, seems to me to only have any bearing when it comes to applying for a permit. It seems to me that you'd have to do something pretty bad to get a letter from the OSBI saying your permit was revoked. Other than that, I guess it would be possible for them to find something for disqualification when you went to renew for your permit when they do anther background check on you.

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